If there is a god, then why is there so much suffering in the world? (salvation, grace)

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I realize that your atheism breeds contempt and skepticism as a general rule and it infects everything you encounter. But it should not be extended to the integrity of the individuals whose beliefs you scoff at. Apply your unbridled skepticism to their beliefs . . . but absent evidence of their intent to lie . . . back off from your adversarial distrust of their truthfulness and motives . . . or are you claiming some psychic powers.

I have no need to be chastised by you, so maybe you should direct your holier-than-thou attitude toward someone else. Atheism breeds no contempt, except toward those who continue to spread their mysticism to our children in schools and our lawmakers. Otherwise, I really couldn't care less. I made no definitive judgement about Mayberry, only expressing my opinion for the reasons he/she has come to such an illogical conclusion.

[JohnA151]

Originally Posted by Amaznjohn

I have no need to be chastised by you, so maybe you should direct your holier-than-thou attitude toward someone else. Atheism breeds no contempt, except toward those who continue to spread their mysticism to our children in schools and our lawmakers. Otherwise, I really couldn't care less. I made no definitive judgement about Mayberry, only expressing my opinion for the reasons he/she has come to such an illogical conclusion.

the believers are the ones who show contempt how many posts have i read over the years on a multitude of threads by *believers * insinuating that atheists have no morals and no guidence as to what is right and what is wrong .
thats contemptable

these are open boards controlled only by what the owners allow to be *discussed * no one is forcing you **or anybody else to read it .

I and others here have the FREEWILL to write what *opinion* i please as long as it does not break any **forum rules ** FREEWILL isnt that what you guys say g-d gave you .
then use it sometimes .

[Cyborg]

Because there is no God. You pretty much answered your own question .

[Sir Les]

Originally Posted by LargeKingCat

It has nothing to do with "god" because there is no such thing.
Suffering begins within, with negative thoughts, greed, egotism, and is manifest outward through one's actions. It is human choice, based on selfishness and a lack of tolerance, love and consideration for others that leads to evil deeds.

Natural forces and the results of natural forces are simply part of natural cycles on the planet. Tsunamis, Hurricanes, Tornados, can bering destruction, and cannot be altered. They are not the products ofa vengeful deity but natural occurances, and happen as far as we can tell on every planet in the universe which has an atmosphere. Man's reaction to these events, despair and helplessness vs cooperation and resiliance can also contribute to a level of negative thinking.

I would ponder this more before saying things like that ^....

If God is truth of something that is still here..(Eden) or like (Eden but wild)...in ordering it in a certain way (with all the plants underlined in Genesis) in a certain way (self sinless)...this creates the Thing God made us for...(Tending and Keeping the Garden with all the Givens)...Alive and Well cared for = Respect of what God made....and if we Give Like God..." I Give you everything " then more Edens should arise from those givens....

Now tending to the Garden well, takes knowledge of the Garden entities...Plants control weather to some degree...climatization of the planet is something that should be natural and evolutionary in our developement in making more Planets live with God ...God being truth...

Removing one or many plants or poisoning them so only humans can have...is selfishness onto others who need to eat the food now being poisoned..
Prohibition of plants is Anti God, Anti Christ, Anti Eden, Anti Life....for some...and in a chain of living things removal of one source of food or many sources of food...in that chain causes Chaos to arise in the matrix or chain...and this cause Problems...change is forced...pestilence and woe, and suffering arise of those other entities, towards the attacker or make of the chaos or intent to strife them...and thus they have to either mutate out of form,(change their eating habits and life style) or go extinct.

So...is there a God who tells us before hand what should be done? or is it imperitive to do?.."Tend and Keep the Garden"....there is no mention of any other reason for our making....in tending to the Garden properly..and sharing and caring for all living things...and in that we become helpers of God...instead of helpers of self, and wealth.....then God stands with us if we stand with God and uphold those commandments, precepts, and covenants..and the first instruction and reason for our making....Helpers of God in the Garden....
It seems Humans do not believe in Giving and sharing like God...which would be a improvement....they believe in Idols and making cities and pollution devices, and weapons of warfare and selfishness..and debt.....not caring too much about the Garden anymore...they believe money solves their problems.....and to get money they work for that...and not for God, or Good, or giving, or sharing....Slavery!....Yep...and now they protect that system, and enforce it over the world humans are making, and being born into....which has nothing to do with the Garden being taken care of...but rather raping it of its resources, to continue the pollution of the Earth for $$$ and wealth, and control of that ....spilling blood of Humans onto its altar..in sacrifices, and stupidity...round and round in circles...always saying we are free...but are tied to oh so much bloodshed and termoil....and woes, and wrath..and suffering...and poverty..crime and corruption.....as Jesus said would be under the idols influances...

Now the difference between God and Humans is...God always makes Good....as a testement to what is before our own eyes in plants, and animals and living things he made before and after Humans........

But humans seem to like to make bad be a constant....and then try to resolve it by using Money of which there is never enough to solve the problems it creates!!....and if we take what God demands of us...the Ten Commandments....as a way to live in the light.....and we break even one of those commandments....(Not suggestions) then we bring upon this world a world of sorrows.
We are the cause, and the effect of that being a truth, while we denie God his statutes of conduct...and the causality of breaking laws of God....are now in full swing.

So it is about God...and it is about us...if we break the commandments, and do nothing in the Garden to tend to it correctly (Watching it be Polluted for $$$)..and we use Money (engraven thing worshipped for Life, and made to have life other than God being God for Life) ....mayham, Chaos, woe, wrath, pesilences, suffering, and death, will always be our side arm....Under that IDOL God made a commandment about.

So Jesus says...tend to the living....what is money?....is it living?....From my understanding Money is a dead thing....it has no power...it does nothing on its own accord.....So why do people believe in it so much that they spend their days and lives trying to make it, or have it?...when it is responsible for taking away the free Gifts of God...and the sharing...and the caring....it makes destitution...it causes poverty....it forces the haves and have nots to be....and in that conflict.

The laws of the lands....created to share the lands with all...to sow all seed...to let things go wild one in seven years....and to let the poor have the corners every year....and one in seven years, the harvest is not collected...Jubilee years are also given to the wild by not harvesting....and is left for the other living things...and anything that falls from the trees, or bushes is left on the ground......this way every year every living thing gets something.

Yes sharing and caring for the whole...it starts when one puts money out of mind....and it is hard to do in a system made up upon this precept or ideal.....

Now Prohibition is wrong...what they should do is take that produce..and turn it into something Good....instead of second Judging God's Judgement, and making it bad.
Medicines..textiles, and more, climatization of barren regions of the world and or planets it is sowed upon...so more food production can take place., and nore living can be had........so...are we at a crossroads...?

Can humans continue to imprison children, belittle, oppress, sanction, and even slaughter people for growing certain Plants?.....and cutting off their trade which supports their way of living...?...remember why God made us, is to tend to the Garden...there is no mention of any other instruction of why God made us....and in order to make that a reality check.....killing people who grow plants, any plants, ... a way of living surely with a living entity... is doing service for God in some way in that Garden ideal.....and so who is God with when we (Idol supporters and tax payers who pay for these wars to be and come into contention) go to war on those people who grow plants for a living?.....

Yah it is not about God right?

[Thomas_Thumb]

Because he either...

(1) doesn't exist

(2) is a cosmic prankster

(3) doesn't give a...

[Wallisdj]

I am really amused by the OP's question.

"If there is a God" actually has no logical connection to the controlling phrase of the question: "why is ther so much suffering in the world?

What does God have to do with anything?

I continue to maintain: God does nothing.

And yet, while man continues to wreak havoc throughout this little corner of creation, it is man always pointing fingers at this god or the other, demaning that this very same god do something. All the while ignoring the answer of "You do something."

Looking throughout the ages, it is a wonder to see just how turned around people are when it comes to a view about a God or gods.

In the "old days," people ran as fast as they could from the gods. Gods were meddlesome and troubling; the watchword of the day was "Don't let the gods know you exist."

Turn that around, and we have such phrases as "God wants you to have a good life. . . . just give him [meaning the preacher] money."

When my cousin's wife was murdered a hundred years ago, I wanted to take a jawbone to the parents of his wife. They insisted that they were being punished by God for some stupid infraction. Such was the horrible brainwashing of a false Christian philosophy that demanded some kind of sacrificial rite (usually in large bills or coin) to ensure God's benevolence and protection. They woudl have been better off if they had used the money to buy protecton from a gang.

The Old Testament writers have already answered this question. To sum up what they have written in modern words: "Hey!" says God. "It's my game, and if you don't like it, pick up your ball and go play somewhere's else. Oh, by the way, good luck on finding that 'somewhere's else.' Hee-hee, ha-ha!"

We would all be better off by laying off the belly-aching and start helping ourselves.

We have overpopulated the world because we can't keep certain parts of our anatomy covered up.

We have overpopulated the world because we can't accept the certainty of death and need to live "forever."

We have murdered trillions in the name of causes that have had superficial meaning. "A Reich that will last a thousand years!" Who cares? Who's going to be around in a hundred years, much less than a thousand? And why should anyone care what the world is going to look like in a thousand years anyway?

We have become the most self-centered species existing on the Earth. What other species consistently--some apes and monkeys do occassionally--laugh at the misery of other human beings? Where muggings on the streets of American cities are free entertainment, possibly with a little betting on the side.

Where lawbreakers who create widespread mayhem are jailed and/or fined instead of put into the ground for good--God certainly didn't do it. And on an overpopulated planet, as long as people continue to put up with destruction and mayhem, we deserve every ounce of misery meted out.

As for "ME" and my buddy God: I pray fervently that every human being would be wiped out of existence in an instance. Then maybe I can get some peace . . . and a little self-loving. Whoopee!

[JohnA151]

Originally Posted by Wallisdj

I am really amused by the OP's question.

"If there is a God" actually has no logical connection to the controlling phrase of the question: "why is ther so much suffering in the world?

What does God have to do with anything?

I continue to maintain: God does nothing.

And yet, while man continues to wreak havoc throughout this little corner of creation, it is man always pointing fingers at this god or the other, demaning that this very same god do something. All the while ignoring the answer of "You do something."

Looking throughout the ages, it is a wonder to see just how turned around people are when it comes to a view about a God or gods.

In the "old days," people ran as fast as they could from the gods. Gods were meddlesome and troubling; the watchword of the day was "Don't let the gods know you exist."

Turn that around, and we have such phrases as "God wants you to have a good life. . . . just give him [meaning the preacher] money."

When my cousin's wife was murdered a hundred years ago, I wanted to take a jawbone to the parents of his wife. They insisted that they were being punished by God for some stupid infraction. Such was the horrible brainwashing of a false Christian philosophy that demanded some kind of sacrificial rite (usually in large bills or coin) to ensure God's benevolence and protection. They woudl have been better off if they had used the money to buy protecton from a gang.

The Old Testament writers have already answered this question. To sum up what they have written in modern words: "Hey!" says God. "It's my game, and if you don't like it, pick up your ball and go play somewhere's else. Oh, by the way, good luck on finding that 'somewhere's else.' Hee-hee, ha-ha!"

We would all be better off by laying off the belly-aching and start helping ourselves.

We have overpopulated the world because we can't keep certain parts of our anatomy covered up.

We have overpopulated the world because we can't accept the certainty of death and need to live "forever."

We have murdered trillions in the name of causes that have had superficial meaning. "A Reich that will last a thousand years!" Who cares? Who's going to be around in a hundred years, much less than a thousand? And why should anyone care what the world is going to look like in a thousand years anyway?

We have become the most self-centered species existing on the Earth. What other species consistently--some apes and monkeys do occassionally--laugh at the misery of other human beings? Where muggings on the streets of American cities are free entertainment, possibly with a little betting on the side.

Where lawbreakers who create widespread mayhem are jailed and/or fined instead of put into the ground for good--God certainly didn't do it. ON A OVERPOPULATED PLANET AS LONG AS PEOPLE CONTINUE TO PUT UP WITH DESTRUCTION AND MAYHEM WE DESERVE EVERY OUNCE OF MISERY MELTED OUT

As for "ME" and my buddy God: I pray fervently that every human being would be wiped out of existence in an instance. Then maybe I can get some peace . . . and a little self-loving. Whoopee!

I hope you include christians in the bolded statement as they are the ones who course most of it

[overcastg4]

Originally Posted by LargeKingCat

Natural forces and the results of natural forces are simply part of natural cycles on the planet.

There is more to the universe than the physical planet.

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by overcastg4

There is more to the universe than the physical planet.

And I'm sure you have some concrete, conclusive proof of what you proclaim.

[june 7th]

"Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain."



~kahlil Gibran