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Those are not my beliefs. You must have me mistaken for someone else? Treif Jews? I never said that and do not believe that. The only treif Jews are Jews who sadly believe in Yushke.
I do believe, however, that the Jews must first look at themselves if they seek to lay blame for the Shoa. And only once a full personal accounting has been done, should they look outwards to seek others to blame.
I believe Hashem allowed Hitler to do his thing because the Jews in Europe of the 20th century did not do the proper actions in their lives to merit Hashem's protection. When we Jews follow the 613 mitzvahs in the Torah, it's entirely impossible for a Hitler to harm us. When we fall seriously short - all of us at our own levels of observance - than we no longer merit Hashem's protection, and then a lunatic like Jimmy Carter, er, I mean Hitler, can do his worst against us Jews, and we have nobody to protect us but ourselves (and we make better scholars than soldiers).
That is ridiculous. Practicing the Mitzvahs to a T would no prevent another human from causing havoc on Jews. What if Jews in Israel are sitting in their homes practicing all the commandments they capable of doing without exception and someone drops a bomb on their house. They aren't going to magically survive the explosion.
Any Supreme Being who would resort to using something like the Holocaust to punish and discipline his creation, let alone his most prized creation is a sadistic monster.
That is ridiculous. Practicing the Mitzvahs to a T would no prevent another human from causing havoc on Jews. What if Jews in Israel are sitting in their homes practicing all the commandments they capable of doing without exception and someone drops a bomb on their house. They aren't going to magically survive the explosion.
Any Supreme Being who would resort to using something like the Holocaust to punish and discipline his creation, let alone his most prized creation is a sadistic monster.
I've said it like 10 times in this thread and the similar one in the Judaism forum. Listen, everybody: G-d did not cause the holocaust, nor did he send it. He had nothing to do with it. However, He could have prevented it (clearly within His capabilities, right?), but He did not. That's the message we must take. Why did hashem sit this one out? Why did He let Hitler do his worst? The reason, is because we did not merit His protection. When Jews follow the 613 mitzvahs, and non-Jews the 7 Noahide laws, Hashem will intervene. Sometimes when we do not follow them properly, He may still have a reason to intervene. But if He does not intervene, we must look at ourselves as ask what could we be doing better, so that next a maniac comes to destroy us, we will merit His protection.
You said "no true christian preaches hate" or something to that nature... SO you are insinuating the Catholic church is ran by not true christians?
Christianity is not about hate. If you think it is you badly misunderstand the religion. VERY BADLY.
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
Just google churches denial of molesters... Turning a blind eye by the laws that bind non religious entities is a crime, of aiding a criminal.... The church is above those laws and has used it's power unwisely in this matter...
If you condone the way the church has handled some of the molesting cases, then in my mind you are just as guilty as the priests who performed the hannace acts..
I certainly disapprove of any actions that have protected child molesters. But, if you think Im just as guilty as the molesting priests, Ill be happy to provide my address so you can come and conduct a citizen's arrest. I mean, right, youd be just as guilt as me for not doing so. Come on now, dont back down!
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
Again, you are quite "classic" here... Soo BBC commits a wrong doing and that makes another OK..???
You call yourself a Christian..? Sick and demented ..
Again, it seems you have the reading comprehension of a donkey. What I challenged was your assertion that because individuals within an organization do something makes the whole indsutry invalid. Talk about sick and twisted. Your ability to castigate millions over the acts of a few sounds just like bigots and zealots all over the world.
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
Please tell us what a "TRUE" Christian is? I bet it is what ever YOU believe and do... Don't you find it a least bit odd? Why is it your ways your beliefs are the correct ones? What about others, other christians other religions, other cultures and practices? They are all wrong? Your path conveniently the righteous one...???
You see no flaw in this thinking of yours????
There you go again...putting words in my mouth. Tiresome. I try to be a true Christian, but I often fail. Its difficult. My beliefs I came to later in life, after years of not believing. Thus, they arent convenient, they are the result of what truly spoke to me, among all the many choices. Wow, you are great at assuming. You know what the does, right?
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
When you wake up, open your eyes, you will see the pain and suffering induced by religion all around you, from family disowning a child for changing faith, to a Catholic getting married to a luthern, and not being able to take communion... Small things your mind should start to question... Then move on to the big.....
I see pain and suffering all around by people who have not an ounce of real religion in their body. Was John Gacy "religious"? Was Jeffrey Dahlmer? How about Stalin? Pol Pot? None of these charmers were religious, yet they werent such great guys, were they? FYI, going to church or the motions of "being religious" does not make one necessarily a person of real faith.
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
WWII had its roots in Religious differences in people. Religion not the cause but the catalyst.... The grease on the skids to pain suffering and hate... As in most genocides the crusades, and todays current day Jihads, in the middle east including Iraq, every skirmish on borders between Palestine and Israel. On and On and on,,, The vast majority of bloodshed in history was between groups with different beliefs. All Proclaiming "god is with us"
Heck it has been non stop bloodshed for thousands of years........
Ah, indeed, its "roots" were religious. Nice try but NOPE. The Russians and Germans didnt fight each other over religion. They fought over that same old, same old issue of cultural hatred of the "other". Same with Japsan and Chinese. Tell me, do North Korea and South Korea squabble about religion? No. They squabble about political issues and LAND. Maybe we should do away with land? Let me know when you got a way to solve that one, hotshot. I wont hold my breath.
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
You do not see it.. It is your Righteous attitude at the root... News flash.... Other have that same Righteous attitude about their believes.... Your religions drive a wedge between people.....
Sad and stupid.... The opposite of good... Down right evil...........
Oh goodness, Timbers thinks Im evil. Gosh, my heart breaks at the thought.
Look, you want to rant and rave like a maniac about religion, fine. But please dont be silly enough to think your "arguments" have the slightest hope of making any headway of eradicating the planet of religion. NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN. And if it did, it wouldnt because of your absurd "logic".
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Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
Yes take responsibility... Tell us that a Muslim is equal to a Christian, that a Lutheran is equal to a Catholic. A Jew equal to a Baptist... All perfectly fine in your Gods eyes..
Tell me others path to salvation can be just as good as your own...
When you Confess to this.. THEN you will have taken responsibility to defuse this insanity!!
Nope, sorry pal, I only take responsbility for what I can control. And I certainly dont take direction from the likes of you. But I will say this. People of other religions are just fine by me. I dont hate or condemn them. The former is not Christian, and the latter is not in my ability. For me, however, Christianity represents the truest path to God. From that I will not waver. You dont like it, well, gosh, again, youre welcome to try a citizen's arrest for my many crimes and offenses. Just let me know and Ill pass on my address.
These religions are really more properly identified as Bibleans or Jehovans (or Yahwehans) because their beliefs about God contradict Christ's teachings, life and death that unambiguously displayed the unconditional love of God and could never countenance a Hitler as a means to any end.
Remember, many people who believed they were good Christians committed horrible atrocities during the middle ages. This includes my ancestor who, based on what I have read, took the nickname "Slayer of Jews" because he was so proficient at killing them during the Crusades.
I guess these people just misinterpreted the teachings of Jesus.
All types of things to comment on. First, I don't believe God put Hilter in power anymore than he took Hindenburg out or let Stalin and Beria have their way.
The German/Russian conflict in WW2 had nothing at all to do with Religion. Germany made a pact with Russia but went back on it when some Germans decided they really did want the Romanian oil fields and a sea port. Hitler was one of the worst leaders when it came to military matters, he should have studied Napolean or Sun Tsu more and not behaved like an idiot if he really wanted to win his war.
Stalin and his people killed more of their own citizens than the Germans ever did, but history still seems to over look that..
A great many conflicts in this world are started because of or in spite of religion than any other supposed reason. Look at all the people in history who claimed "God is on my side" as justification to attack someone else.
What complete and utter nonsense. Asheville not only knows God doesnt exist, he knows that man, via religion, will bring about the end of civilization. Amazing powers of prophecy...god given?
They you better put down your book of fairy tales and pay attention to what in hell is going on this rock, all from stupid people in the name of the utter stupidity of gods.
Remember, many people who believed they were good Christians committed horrible atrocities during the middle ages. This includes my ancestor who, based on what I have read, took the nickname "Slayer of Jews" because he was so proficient at killing them during the Crusades.
I guess these people just misinterpreted the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus undoubtedly said some warm fuzzies, but there is PLENTY of precedent in the Bible for murder, mayhem, genocide, rape, torture, intolerance, child murder, baby bashing on the rocks, mutilation, misogyny, you name it, it is ALL THERE FOR INSPIRATION for the believers.
How did Adolf manage to get into power and commit mass murder?
why did God allow this, considering the Jews are supposed to be his people?
Does good and evil even exist anyway?
A lot of political ramifications got Hitler elected into power. As far as as a mass murderer he was a mad man who passed the the orders down the hierarchy ladder to have the Jews wiped out by gassing and firing squads. God did not allow this perniciousness,it was the desire of an evil person to see them wiped off the face of the Earth. The good was the Allied forces who rallied to rid the evil, even though it tells about the pernicious Allies and their feelings about helping the POW'S or the lack thereof because of their disgusting appearance and body odor.
Yes take responsibility... Tell us that a Muslim is equal to a Christian, that a Lutheran is equal to a Catholic. A Jew equal to a Baptist... All perfectly fine in your Gods eyes..
Tell me others path to salvation can be just as good as your own...
When you Confess to this.. THEN you will have taken responsibility to defuse this insanity!!
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Originally Posted by Ghostofrand
Nope, sorry pal, I only take responsbility for what I can control. And I certainly dont take direction from the likes of you. But I will say this. People of other religions are just fine by me. I dont hate or condemn them. The former is not Christian, and the latter is not in my ability. For me, however, Christianity represents the truest path to God. From that I will not waver. You dont like it, well, gosh, again, youre welcome to try a citizen's arrest for my many crimes and offenses. Just let me know and Ill pass on my address.
"I only take responsibility for what I can control"........The grand scapegoat of the "conscious god" crowd...
"Truest path to god" I am so happy you can control yourself, knowing you have the "right answers" while others do not....
Seriously though,
Try to take responsibility for your fellow Christians, put down hate and condemning when you see it... Preach that message of love and tolerance, of others... Many that share your religion can not control themselves very well... Here in lies the problem..
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But I will say this. People of other religions are just fine by me. I dont hate or condemn them. The former is not Christian, and the latter is not in my ability. For me, however, Christianity represents the truest path to God. From that I will not waver. You dont like it, well, gosh, again, youre welcome to try a citizen's arrest for my many crimes and offenses. Just let me know and Ill pass on my address. 
