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Why do you believe that gays who legitimately love each other are the exception, in your view is homosexuality just about sex...?
In my view, homosexuality has been over run by sex and lust; any chance that it had to be legitimate has been lost in its lust, because in this type of case, lust will rule the majority. When you step outside of the norm, go against the grain and seek legitimacy in whatever area we can discuss, those stepping outside must have limitations and guidelines to support their legitimacy; they must show at least a control over themselves and their cause; who controls homosexuality? Not the sincere gay respectable couples, but the out of control masses; they control homosexuality. THEY have made it all about sex, not those who disagree with this. And this is the trouble with human nature, which is really the key to behavior; we will abuse things, and the abusers get the press, their spirit begins to rotten any reputation that those who do not abuse it have. In my view, the gays who legitamitly love each other are just overshadowed by those who are out of control and all about lust; and that's " The way of the world." The way of the world makes it all about sex, I think the chance honest gay couples who would be good examples of healthy relationships are just drowned out by the prevailing " Spirit of lust" in other gays, and that spirit is simply the stronger in this world.
And that's why I like the bible, its way would combat those spirits at their source and not allow them ultimate control over humans; but we don't want that way. We don't want those limitations, those rules of behavior , those laws and restrictions; we want to be free of all that and to do our own thing. We fail to see the long term consequences of that.
And that's all I am saying. But it's too late for that, the spirits of this world has too tight a grip for anything human to release it. But most people CAN'T even see these spirits, their secret effect, their ultimate dark intentions for humanity. Now if a person like myself speaks against these things that we do, we get all chewed up and brushed to the side; the spirits actually has humanity " Rooting for their victory", because humanity is short sighted in these matters; its already too late because of that lack of vision.
My girlfriend has a gay mother (who knew she was gay from childhood, but in the 60s in a black household, that was not going to fly). My girlfriend was NEVER gay nor "became" gay after her mother revealed her true orientation when she still a youngster. Also, in coming to meet this whole new world (to me) of gay people (women in this case), I met quite a few other gay women who have grown children, were married to men (under societal pressure to appear "straight") who are now living an openly gay life and who will tell you they were ALWAYS gay without being abused and all the other things you put up there. Ironically, of the 9 or 10 of these women I know, not ONE of their children is gay. Not one INCLUDING my girlfriend. Ironically, one of my girlfriend's aunts who used to rail against my girlfriend's mother for being gay (using her Jehovah's Witness religious arguments) is the one with an openly gay daughter which infuriates her to no end.
Explain this to me, please, sir.
Thanks.
I never said these causes attribute to every single case of homosexuality. With that logic, you must believe that every gay person is born that way, right?
I'm not an atheist, thus your argument is irrelevant.
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They come up with any excuse to reject any evidence that even remotely supports Christianity. It doesn't have any bearing on my position if gays really are born that way. If you can prove it, fine then, I'll accept it. We all are born flawed and sin creatures with tendancies towards certain sins.
Your expectations for proof are unrealistic. We can't prove gravity exists, yet you expect us to absolutely without a doubt prove the exact mechanism for sexual orientation?
The only thing we have for anything is evidence. We can make conclusions based on that evidence, and all current available evidence, including brain scans show that sexual orientation is hardwired into the structure of the brain and primarily fixes at birth.
Yes I agree. The idea that the entire species is unable to make themselves attracted to something or someone they are not.... but homosexuals are the magical exception to this.... is indeed "bogus".
Physical intimacy and love are nothing more than a chemical reactions in the brain, and serves no evolutionary purpose if you subscribe to the atheist world.
Yes mr, theist. Please tell us what we think. Clearly you know what we think better than we do ourselves. Not!
Intimacy and Love play important social role bonding in Evolutionary Theory. This is a hell of a lot more than "no evolutionary purpose" which you just pulled out of thin air. Your consistent misrepresentations and misunderstandings of evolutionary theory however leave me less than surprised at this.
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Originally Posted by TWD39
I never said these causes attribute to every single case of homosexuality.
Alas you have not established that the things you have listed have caused even ONE case of homosexuality. You just pulled the list out of thin air. There is no more reason to think anything on your list causes homosexuality any more than eating an over ripe apple on your 8th birthday does. Of course when I asked you to substantiate even one thing on your list you ran away and ignored the post.
Are there straight people who wake up one day and say, "Ya know, I think I'm gonna go gay just for kicks. Looks like fun. Yeah, I really want to BECOME gay and deal with BS."
Running away? Did you ever consider that maybe I've been busy lately with greater priorities like earning a living? It's comments like this that really make me believe that you don't take the discussion seriously. It doesn't matter that I've take time to repond to dozens of your posts in the past, huh?
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Intimacy and Love play important social role bonding in Evolutionary Theory. This is a hell of a lot more than "no evolutionary purpose" which you just pulled out of thin air. Your consistent misrepresentations and misunderstandings of evolutionary theory however leave me less than surprised at this.
Excuse me from doubting your expert opinion, but at this point, I won't take your claims at face value. Give me some proof to demonstrate conclusively intimacy and love exist in other species.
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Alas you have not established that the things you have listed have caused even ONE case of homosexuality. You just pulled the list out of thin air. There is no more reason to think anything on your list causes homosexuality any more than eating an over ripe apple on your 8th birthday does. Of course when I asked you to substantiate even one thing on your list you ran away and ignored the post.
This is evidence that I've read and heard in personal testimonies several times over the years. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found any recent examples to present. But the cultural climate has rapidly changed so I wouldn't be surprised if organizations are now reluctant to produce any study that might go against the gay agenda. They risk great media criticism and lack of funding and support. So I haven't had much luck in finding a recent 2012 study.
But here is one for now:
"Dr Qazi Rahman, study co-author and a leading scientist on human sexual orientation, explains: "This study puts cold water on any concerns that we are looking for a single 'gay gene' or a single environmental variable which could be used to 'select out' homosexuality - the factors which influence sexual orientation are complex. And we are not simply talking about homosexuality here - heterosexual behaviour is also influenced by a mixture of genetic and environmental factors.
Running away? Did you ever consider that maybe I've been busy lately with greater priorities like earning a living?
No given you skip over my posts and reply to posts from other people. Usually with not subtle snide digs at me hidden in them too. And now you are replying to THIS post but still skipping over the other which remains ignored. So all indications seem to be you are just copping out of replying to them. Anyway back to the topic at hand....
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Originally Posted by TWD39
Give me some proof to demonstrate conclusively intimacy and love exist in other species.
I never said they exist in other species.
I said these things have an evolutionary purpose.
Once again you take what I have said, ignore it, and change it to something completely different. It is quite literally almost EVERY reply from you that this occurs.
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Originally Posted by TWD39
This is evidence that I've read and heard in personal testimonies several times over the years. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found any recent examples to present.
So your "evidence" for your list of things that cause homosexuality is not only solely anecdotal... which is already a fail.... but it is anecdotes you can not even present or cite? Nice.
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Originally Posted by TWD39
But the cultural climate has rapidly changed so I wouldn't be surprised if organizations are now reluctant to produce any study that might go against the gay agenda.
Cop out. You have no evidence for your list so you are trying to explain this away by making appeals to conspiracies and agendas. It is almost getting to the point I can predict your posts before you even write them. Step 1: I ask for evidence. Step 2: You come up with excuses for not having any.
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Originally Posted by TWD39
Dr Qazi Rahman, study co-author and a leading scientist on human sexual orientation, explains: "This study puts cold water on any concerns that we are looking for a single 'gay gene' or a single environmental variable which could be used to 'select out' homosexuality - the factors which influence sexual orientation are complex. And we are not simply talking about homosexuality here - heterosexual behaviour is also influenced by a mixture of genetic and environmental factors.
And I agree 100% with everything in that quote. The problem is that "Environmental factors" does not mean what you think it does. It does not mean the things you put in your list such as gay experiences with a friend, seeing gay porn, or a poor or absent relationship with one or both parents. These are the things you list and there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER in that link you gave to support any of them.
What you might not have noticed is that when a biologist speaks of "Environmental factors" they are talking about things like Hormone Levels in the womb. Read down the link a little and you will see for example:
"other individual-specific environmental factors (that is, not societal attitudes, family or parenting which are shared by twins) accounted for around 64 per cent. In other words"
and
"non-shared environmental factors, which may include factors operating during foetal development"
So I am afraid the list of causes of homosexuality you gave still remains unsubstantiated and nothing in this link supports your case. In fact it harms your case given the line "not societal attitudes, family or parenting" part which makes me wonder if you even read the link before citing it.
No given you skip over my posts and reply to posts from other people. Usually with not subtle snide digs at me hidden in them too. And now you are replying to THIS post but still skipping over the other which remains ignored. So all indications seem to be you are just copping out of replying to them. Anyway back to the topic at hand....
I take the LIFO approach when buried in replies. If you don't like it, that's your problem.
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
I never said they exist in other species.
I said these things have an evolutionary purpose.
I would think the only purpose of evolution is to ensure the survival of the species. Physical act of sex should be enough.
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
And I agree 100% with everything in that quote. The problem is that "Environmental factors" does not mean what you think it does. It does not mean the things you put in your list such as gay experiences with a friend, seeing gay porn, or a poor or absent relationship with one or both parents. These are the things you list and there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER in that link you gave to support any of them.
What you might not have noticed is that when a biologist speaks of "Environmental factors" they are talking about things like Hormone Levels in the womb. Read down the link a little and you will see for example:
"other individual-specific environmental factors (that is, not societal attitudes, family or parenting which are shared by twins) accounted for around 64 per cent. In other words"
and
"non-shared environmental factors, which may include factors operating during foetal development"
So I am afraid the list of causes of homosexuality you gave still remains unsubstantiated and nothing in this link supports your case. In fact it harms your case given the line "not societal attitudes, family or parenting" part which makes me wonder if you even read the link before citing it.
So are you claiming that "foetal development" explains the rest of the 64%? Just because they don't specifically point out the other environmental factors doesn't mean there are none. At the very least, the study shows that genetics alone can not explain homosexuality.
Last edited by TWD39; 02-08-2013 at 10:59 AM..
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