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Glad you pointed that out, and so the 5 most famous books in the history of mankind which has no doubt shaped civilization and altered mankind was written by an unknown author who decided not to take any credit for the 5 books he had written?
Dang, wished somebody would have put their name on such a history changing book, wonder what he was thinking.
What an humble man, giving credit to an enigma that supposedly didn't exit.
Dude must have worked his whole life to give away the most life changing thing ever written, wonder who this mysterious man was who wanted no recognision. Moses speaks in a tongue not known to many, but he speaks it fluently, the books prove themselves.
Jewish tradition was to NOT put the name of the author to many works. Which is why we can be sure the gospels are also Jewish in nature, although written by men educated in Greek literature. Because Christianity at the beginning of the 2nd century AD was still very Jewish in nature.
I am thinking that you are kidding, Josephus proved Moses through extra biblical sources of terrible historians 2000 years ago.
Yeah, not exactly:
"Because Moses was the one figure in the Jewish tradition who was well known to the pagan world and because he had been reviled by several anti-Jewish writers, Josephus can be assumed to have felt a special need to paint a favorable picture of him. Several events in Moses' life presented a particular problem to Josephus. Despite his promise in his proem to add nothing to, and to subtract nothing from, the biblical text, in almost all of these cases Josephus simply omits the embarrassing episodes. On the other hand, he is careful to avoid the undue aggrandizement and near deification of Moses found in the Samaritan tradition and, to a lesser degree, in the rabbinic tradition, with which there is good reason to believe he was well acquainted.
Likewise, because his sophisticated audience would undoubtedly have found the biblical miracles hardly credible, he tends to downgrade or rationalize them, or, as in the case of the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea, he makes a point of noting as a parallel the crossing of the Pamphylian Sea by Alexander the Great.
Because the Antiquities is an apologetic work directed primarily to non-Jews, Josephus portrays Moses as embodying the qualities of the great heroes of the Greeks and Romans, notably the external qualities of good birth and handsome stature, precociousness in youth, and the four cardinal virtues of wisdom, courage, temperance, and justice, as supplemented by what was, in effect, a fifth cardinal virtue, piety.
Moses' appeal to this audience is particularly effective because he is depicted as the ideal leader, especially in meeting the test of sedition and in coping with the unruly mob. Josephus' tone here is highly reminiscent of Thucydides' portrait of Pericles, of Plato's description of the philosopher-king, of Virgil's portrayal of Aeneas, and of the traditional Stoic sage; and concurrently, the role of Aaron as his spokesman is considerably down-graded.
It is particularly as an educator, a legislator, a poet, and above all as a general and a prophet that Moses excels. In stressing these achievements Josephus shifts the focus from God to Moses. Josephus' modifications of the biblical narrative of Moses are occasioned by his apologetic concern to defend the Jews against the charges of their critics, particularly cowardice, provincialism, and intolerance, and by his positive desire to portray a personality fully comparable to such great leaders, whether historical or legendary, as Heracles, Lycurgus, Aeneas, and Pericles. Finally, Josephus has included several motifs--notably irony and suspense--from the Greek tragedians in order to render his narrative more dramatic."
Let me ask you a question, why would the Egyptians call Moses,'' Osiris?
The answer to this question should be obvious if you know the religion of Egyptains, and I mean holy days and traditions still being practiced in Egypt today.
Except the Egyptians did not call Moses "Osiris". The god Osiris was contemplated at least a millennia before the entity of Moses was written about. The similarity of Osiris and Horus to the god of the bible and Jesus is striking to any student of comparative religions, which was my minor at university. Let's go down that road if you want to.
"Moses" was a typical patronymic in Egypt, as in "Tutmoses". The name has nothing to do with any god.
Quote:
You are in the water, but I will hook my bait with something irresistable.
Where do you claim the 5 books of Moses came from lol?
I'll answer that question, but first of all, can you advise what order they were written in. Do you think they were written in the order now presented, or otherwise? Hint: I know this answer well. Be careful where you tread.
Jewish tradition was to NOT put the name of the author to many works. Which is why we can be sure the gospels are also Jewish in nature, although written by men educated in Greek literature. Because Christianity at the beginning of the 2nd century AD was still very Jewish in nature.
The NT cannot be compared to the law and the prophets, and I know who wrote the gospels, and all those letters of a Jew that are included as books, they were letters, and everyone knew who wrote them when they were written, and you can't compare a letter from a Jew with the inspired word of God innthe law and the prophets, and the law and the prophets was the end of the prophets.
"Because Moses was the one figure in the Jewish tradition who was well known to the pagan world and because he had been reviled by several anti-Jewish writers, Josephus can be assumed to have felt a special need to paint a favorable picture of him. Several events in Moses' life presented a particular problem to Josephus. Despite his promise in his proem to add nothing to, and to subtract nothing from, the biblical text, in almost all of these cases Josephus simply omits the embarrassing episodes. On the other hand, he is careful to avoid the undue aggrandizement and near deification of Moses found in the Samaritan tradition and, to a lesser degree, in the rabbinic tradition, with which there is good reason to believe he was well acquainted.
Likewise, because his sophisticated audience would undoubtedly have found the biblical miracles hardly credible, he tends to downgrade or rationalize them, or, as in the case of the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea, he makes a point of noting as a parallel the crossing of the Pamphylian Sea by Alexander the Great.
Because the Antiquities is an apologetic work directed primarily to non-Jews, Josephus portrays Moses as embodying the qualities of the great heroes of the Greeks and Romans, notably the external qualities of good birth and handsome stature, precociousness in youth, and the four cardinal virtues of wisdom, courage, temperance, and justice, as supplemented by what was, in effect, a fifth cardinal virtue, piety.
Moses' appeal to this audience is particularly effective because he is depicted as the ideal leader, especially in meeting the test of sedition and in coping with the unruly mob. Josephus' tone here is highly reminiscent of Thucydides' portrait of Pericles, of Plato's description of the philosopher-king, of Virgil's portrayal of Aeneas, and of the traditional Stoic sage; and concurrently, the role of Aaron as his spokesman is considerably down-graded.
It is particularly as an educator, a legislator, a poet, and above all as a general and a prophet that Moses excels. In stressing these achievements Josephus shifts the focus from God to Moses. Josephus' modifications of the biblical narrative of Moses are occasioned by his apologetic concern to defend the Jews against the charges of their critics, particularly cowardice, provincialism, and intolerance, and by his positive desire to portray a personality fully comparable to such great leaders, whether historical or legendary, as Heracles, Lycurgus, Aeneas, and Pericles. Finally, Josephus has included several motifs--notably irony and suspense--from the Greek tragedians in order to render his narrative more dramatic."
Except the Egyptians did not call Moses "Osiris". The god Osiris was contemplated at least a millennia before the entity of Moses was written about. The similarity of Osiris and Horus to the god of the bible and Jesus is striking to any student of comparative religions, which was my minor at university. Let's go down that road if you want to.
"Moses" was a typical patronymic in Egypt, as in "Tutmoses". The name has nothing to do with any god.
I'll answer that question, but first of all, can you advise what order they were written in. Do you think they were written in the order now presented, or otherwise? Hint: I know this answer well. Be careful where you tread.
Noah was taken from the water, and the Egyptian Osiris is just a perverted worship of Noah and his grandson Tammuz.
Moses was also taken from the water, and then all Israel taken from the water.
The oldest record of the flood is the Giglamesh, but it has no ship log, they have no dates, and the construction of their boat was built like a brick.
People say there is no flood myth in Egypt, but yet, the boat of Osiris is still carried in the streets of Egypt Till this day, just as it was in Jesus day, in Moses day.
While the Giglamesh has no dates, the Egyptian's do, and the day Osiris is taken from the water is the 17th day of the second month, and this is the same day as Noah because Osiris IS Noah, and for both Noah and Osiris to be taken from the water on the same day, it is enough proof to me that it came from the exact same source.
Josephus claims the Egyptians called Moses ,'' Osiris,'' for very good reason, because the greatest holy days in Egypt was the day Osiris was taken from the water, it would have been an obvious concept in the minds of all Egyptians, and then to see Moses taken from the water, they would have certainly seen Moses as Osiris, and so everything Josephus said looks like truth to me, but how he taunted the Egyptian historians and others was just too sweet, and what he says proves that Moses and Israel were in Egypt.
But I have the bible, and I don't need Josephus, I believe the bible, and Moses, the prophet of God like no other man.
The sheer effect of Moses changing all civilizations, and changing human history is enough for me, that his book is found EVERYWHERE.
I don't need extra biblical proof, I have all the proof I need.
People have been denying each generation of recorded historical fact for centuries, they say David and Solomon didn't even live lol, frankly, they look pretty damn silly as if they would believe any history as long as it wasn't bible history.
If I had extra biblical sources to prove that Jesus lived, those sources would be attacked worse than the bible, and the bible is all the proof anyone needs.
WHY?
It exists.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 08-23-2019 at 01:51 PM..
Noah was taken from the water, and the Egyptian Osiris is just a perverted worship of Noah and his grandson Tammuz.
Moses was also taken from the water, and then all Israel taken from the water.
The oldest record of the flood is the Giglamesh, but it has no ship log, they have no dates, and the construction of their boat was built like a brick.
People say there is no flood myth in Egypt, but yet, the boat of Osiris is still carried in the streets of Egypt Till this day, just as it was in Jesus day, in Moses day.
While the Giglamesh has no dates, the Egyptian's do, and the day Osiris is taken from the water is the 17th day of the second month, and this is the same day as Noah because Osiris IS Noah, and for both Noah and Osiris to be taken from the water on the same day, it is enough proof to me that it came from the exact same source.
Josephus claims the Egyptians called Moses ,'' Osiris,'' for very good reason, because the greatest holy days in Egypt was the day Osiris was taken from the water, it would have been an obvious concept in the minds of all Egyptians, and then to see Moses taken from the water, they would have certainly seen Moses as Osiris, and so everything Josephus said looks like truth to me, but how he taunted the Egyptian historians and others was just too sweet, and what he says proves that Moses and Israel were in Egypt.
But I have the bible, and I don't need Josephus, I believe the bible, and Moses, the prophet of God like no other man.
The sheer effect of Moses changing all civilizations, and changing human history is enough for me, that his book is found EVERYWHERE.
I don't need extra biblical proof, I have all the proof I need.
People have been denying each generation of recorded historical fact for centuries, they say David and Solomon didn't even live lol, frankly, they look pretty damn silly as if they would believe any history as long as it wasn't bible history.
If I had extra biblical sources to prove that Jesus lived, those sources would be attacked worse than the bible, and the bible is all the proof anyone needs.
WHY?
It exists.
There is so much wrong and inaccurate in your statements I'm not even going to start. Just the story of Gilgamish is dated well before the biblical flood.
Was Genisis the first book WRITTEN, or just presented as the first book in the Pentateuch?
There is so much wrong and inaccurate in your statements I'm not even going to start. Just the story of Gilgamish is dated well before the biblical flood.
Was Genisis the first book WRITTEN, or just presented as the first book in the Pentateuch?
I haven't a clue what your point is concerning when the 5 books of Moses was written and by who, I call them the 5 books of Moses because that is what they are called, it doesn't matter to me when they were written or by who, all 5 books prove each other.
Listen, there IS NOT A COMPARISON, and to think there is sounds silly to me.
40 authors over a 1500 year period wrote the bible, and even if you could find 10 contradictions, that you believe are contradictions, it still should prove it was inspired by God, you had 40 people speaking of a temple designed and built in human anatomy and the authors did not know this, and yet, 40 authors over a 1500 year period wrote a feaking perfect book, and no amount of geniuses could possibly duplicate it, and me saying this will not convince you flat out don't understand.
These authors spoke in a spiritual language where a mountain is a man, a priest is an olive tree, water is spirit, laws of food are about Gentiles.
You are not understanding just how impossible it is, because you can't read the spiritual language of it, but all those authors spoke in a spiritual language about a bride being a temple, and the bride becomes pregnant and guess what?
She delivers a full grown mature man of 30 years old right out of her womb.
No offense, you think you can read a language you do not know, practice, and maybe you could.
40 authors over 1500 years speaking of trees as men, tabernacles as people, the blood of grapes as spirit, locusts as spirits, and the entire story of the Exodus is about you and if you will come out of the ways of the world, we can go through all the trees and all the grains, all the birds, and all the insects, and all the fish, and all the oceans, and all the rivers, and all of nature in biblical scripture SHOWING US that an oak tree is a man, a cedar tree is a man, a river is a spirit, clean birds are righteous and dity birds are fallen spirits
The entire bible is written in metaphor using a spiritual language few can speak, and yet 40 authors spoke in that same spiritual language without contradiction.
Aint no way for you to understand it, you read what you read in plain English, but the plain English hides an alternate truth with a hidden spiritual language.
If men of science were honest, they would admit the impossibility that 40 authors could agree in a spiritual language over a 1500 year period.
Jesus NO DOUBT PROVED THIS HIDDEN LANGUAGE EXISTED WHEN HE SPOKE THE PARABLES.
If you could understand the spiritual language of the bible, then you could prove what all the parables mean.
I haven't a clue what your point is concerning when the 5 books of Moses was written and by who, I call them the 5 books of Moses because that is what they are called, it doesn't matter to me when they were written or by who, all 5 books prove each other.
Listen, there IS NOT A COMPARISON, and to think there is sounds silly to me.
40 authors over a 1500 year period wrote the bible, and even if you could find 10 contradictions, that you believe are contradictions, it still should prove it was inspired by God, you had 40 people speaking of a temple designed and built in human anatomy and the authors did not know this, and yet, 40 authors over a 1500 year period wrote a feaking perfect book, and no amount of geniuses could possibly duplicate it, and me saying this will not convince you flat out don't understand.
Forty authors? Care to list them? Hint: there is no evidence of this. It is only tradition, and even tradition varies the number of authors.
Quote:
These authors spoke in a spiritual language where a mountain is a man, a priest is an olive tree, water is spirit, laws of food are about Gentiles.
You are not understanding just how impossible it is, because you can't read the spiritual language of it, but all those authors spoke in a spiritual language about a bride being a temple, and the bride becomes pregnant and guess what?
She delivers a full grown mature man of 30 years old right out of her womb.
No offense, you think you can read a language you do not know, practice, and maybe you could.
40 authors over 1500 years speaking of trees as men, tabernacles as people, the blood of grapes as spirit, locusts as spirits, and the entire story of the Exodus is about you and if you will come out of the ways of the world, we can go through all the trees and all the grains, all the birds, and all the insects, and all the fish, and all the oceans, and all the rivers, and all of nature in biblical scripture SHOWING US that an oak tree is a man, a cedar tree is a man, a river is a spirit, clean birds are righteous and dity birds are fallen spirits
The entire bible is written in metaphor using a spiritual language few can speak, and yet 40 authors spoke in that same spiritual language without contradiction.
Aint no way for you to understand it, you read what you read in plain English, but the plain English hides an alternate truth with a hidden spiritual language.
Actually, I have read the bible in two different languages and compared them. So, I guess you're going to tell me that the other language hides your special spiritual messages also, right?
Quote:
If men of science were honest, they would admit the impossibility that 40 authors could agree in a spiritual language over a 1500 year period.
Again, list those 40. All of them, in order. You can't, I already know that.
Forty authors? Care to list them? Hint: there is no evidence of this. It is only tradition, and even tradition varies the number of authors.
Actually, I have read the bible in two different languages and compared them. So, I guess you're going to tell me that the other language hides your special spiritual messages also, right?
Again, list those 40. All of them, in order. You can't, I already know that.
How many authors were there?
You have yet to read the bible to understand it, it doesn't matter if you read it all all the known languages.
You are reading words thinking they have the usual meaning when they do not.
There are approximately 1.2 million species of insects that have been identified and named?
My question for debate is:
How did this Noah manage to collect two of each species of insect from all parts of the globe (without transportation), put them aboard the ark, meet their habitat and food requirements, then return them to their proper habitats after a year.
Many of these insects are microscopic. How did people with no knowledge of microscopes or microscopic organisms manage to collect, load, feed and care for the millions of species of these insects?
How did they distinguish between males and females of animals too small to be seen without a microscope?
Read various Gilgamesh epics to find out.
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