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Old 12-23-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Oregon
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One of the most interesting questions about the New Testament regards the divinity of Jesus. If Jesus was divine, how does one account for his errors showing that he lacked divine knowledge?
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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I doubt that Jesus thought himself divine, but the historical approach to the gospels suggests that his ministry evolved to the point where he did come to believe that he enjoyed divine backing for his pronouncements. Based on what we can extract from the gospels, I think it most likely that Jesus went to Jerusalem fully expecting some divine intervention which would not only spare him his execution, but would blow away the Sadducees, aristocrats in general, possibly the Romans as well, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven/Kingdom of God, whatever that was supposed to be. I think he went to Jerusalem to force the issue once and for all.

It also seems likely that he had his apostles convinced of this as well. When Jesus was arrested and taken away without any divine intervention materializing, they lost heart and took a powder, leaving Jesus to face his ordeal alone. At some point on the cross, his recognition that he had been wrong must have taken place.

So that no one misunderstands, though some will do so anyway, I present the above as what I see as the most likely explanation for the life of Jesus. I do not insist that this is what had to have happened. My field and profession is history and my reliance is upon the best work of the scholars who make their living examining and speculating on the validity of New Testament documents. The best that can be produced is an educated guess, which while unsatisfactory, strikes me as superior to uneducated guesses or blind embracing of dogmatic interpretations.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Based on what we can extract from the gospels, I think it most likely that Jesus went to Jerusalem fully expecting some divine intervention which would not only spare him his execution, but would blow away the Sadducees, aristocrats in general, possibly the Romans as well, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven/Kingdom of God, whatever that was supposed to be. I think he went to Jerusalem to force the issue once and for all.
He did on the other hand make it clear that his kingdom was "not of this world" and was within people's hearts. Of course these may well have been later embellishments of the account. You are surely describing the story arc of many an itinerant Jewish preacher.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
One of the most interesting questions about the New Testament regards the divinity of Jesus. If Jesus was divine, how does one account for his errors showing that he lacked divine knowledge?
OK, I'll bite ... what errors are you speaking of?
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by mordant View Post
He did on the other hand make it clear that his kingdom was "not of this world" and was within people's hearts. Of course these may well have been later embellishments of the account. You are surely describing the story arc of many an itinerant Jewish preacher.
The historical approach is partly about making the best possible effort to identify and shave away those embellishments and base conclusions on what remains. It is also partly about placing that evidence within the historical and political contexts of the times.

And as we have both noted, this is social science, not hypothesis, experiment, conclusion, verification.

Is there a superior way to go about this? I don't find investigations of the heart or soul followed by conclusions from that vacuum to be very useful.

The Kingdom of Heaven may not have been marketed as "of this world" but it was promoted as what was going to replace this world.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
One of the most interesting questions about the New Testament regards the divinity of Jesus. If Jesus was divine, how does one account for his errors showing that he lacked divine knowledge?
Other people at the time may have considered Jesus divine just like some people today might call Jimi Hendrix "God."

It has nothing to do with what Jesus actually was (assuming he existed).
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:56 PM
 
Location: State College, PA; Thousand Oaks, CA
115 posts, read 135,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I doubt that Jesus thought himself divine, but the historical approach to the gospels suggests that his ministry evolved to the point where he did come to believe that he enjoyed divine backing for his pronouncements. Based on what we can extract from the gospels, I think it most likely that Jesus went to Jerusalem fully expecting some divine intervention which would not only spare him his execution, but would blow away the Sadducees, aristocrats in general, possibly the Romans as well, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven/Kingdom of God, whatever that was supposed to be. I think he went to Jerusalem to force the issue once and for all.

It also seems likely that he had his apostles convinced of this as well. When Jesus was arrested and taken away without any divine intervention materializing, they lost heart and took a powder, leaving Jesus to face his ordeal alone. At some point on the cross, his recognition that he had been wrong must have taken place.

So that no one misunderstands, though some will do so anyway, I present the above as what I see as the most likely explanation for the life of Jesus. I do not insist that this is what had to have happened. My field and profession is history and my reliance is upon the best work of the scholars who make their living examining and speculating on the validity of New Testament documents. The best that can be produced is an educated guess, which while unsatisfactory, strikes me as superior to uneducated guesses or blind embracing of dogmatic interpretations.

Great post

Wholeheartedly agree that this is the most likely explanation of Jesus's life and death.

Yet the masses still revere him...
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Southern California
2,074 posts, read 2,166,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
One of the most interesting questions about the New Testament regards the divinity of Jesus. If Jesus was divine, how does one account for his errors showing that he lacked divine knowledge?
Jesus was Divine having received a complete transformation in his soul of the Essence or Substance of God - Divine Love. As to any "errors" in the New Testament, keep in mind that he didn't write it and several gospels that are allegedly written by his disciples were changed over the years, so they're not a reliable source of Jesus' teachings or actions.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009 View Post
Jesus was Divine having received a complete transformation in his soul of the Essence or Substance of God - Divine Love. As to any "errors" in the New Testament, keep in mind that he didn't write it and several gospels that are allegedly written by his disciples were changed over the years, so they're not a reliable source of Jesus' teachings or actions.
Don't you also base your conclusion that Jesus was divine on information found only in the gospels? If you suspect that the accounts were subject to alterations and agendas, doesn't that taint the whole package, including any idea of divinity? How did you determine which parts were valid and which parts were not?
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:15 PM
 
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T o the OP, what were His errors ?
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