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On a number of occasions I've exposed the holes in atheistic logic. We had about a 200 page thread not too long ago on morality. What it came down to was that the atheists arguing against me admitted that you guys simply had no way to define morality other than it being your personal opinion, so you really had no way of definitively saying something was wrong.
On other arguments, we've gone round and round on arguments pertaining to the existence of God. I've used the Cosmological argument to demonstrate that there is evidence for it, and that it is reasonable to believe that the universe was created.
Did either of those threads convince you and the others? Maybe. But I do know that you guys simply don't have it in you to admit it.
How do I account for the idea of we are born with a sense of morality, and what puts that moral compass with in us.
How about the idea of living for thousands of years as a society, we have learned that living together as a collective takes tolerance, understanding and compassion for others. These ideas evolve and are passed down, then they become engrained with in our consciousness. This is where the moral compass comes from.
I think that's right. There is a basic instinct of group co -existence. It is no better or worse than other instincts designed to help groups survive.
I am inclined to postulate that it first came under pressure when farming and herding rather that foraging and hunting enabled complex societies and more sophisticated social codes became required. Writing enables the codes to be written and of course, the 'who says' question, was answered by 'I, The King,' since appeal to 'it's the best we can devise for you' was going to lead to the doubtful mumbles we get at the idea of a Concensus morality'.
Inevitably, ascribing the moral codes to a god was going to be the ultimate appeal to authority. The problem there is when you need to update the codes and and priests say: "But it is on the ancient clay tablets..you can't change what the Gods said.."
That is why a relative morality is not only what we actually have but it is better than a fixed -authority code.
That doesn't mean that we've learned morality--it just means that we have learned to get along together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
That's what moral codes are designed to do. They are not a list of rules imposed arbitrarily by a god.
Ah,nah,nah,nah,nah....not according to some Christians.
If you doubt me, read about the sin of masturbation over on the Christianity forum.
They can get into more trouble than we ever thought of.
Ah,nah,nah,nah,nah....not according to some Christians.
If you doubt me, read about the sin of masturbation over on the Christianity forum.
They can get into more trouble than we ever thought of.
No--it's not about just getting along.
If society decides that it is a good and moral thing to torture babies for no reason other than the individual doing it wants to do it for their own personal pleasure.....is that wrong?
If society decides that it is a good and moral thing to torture babies for no reason other than the individual doing it wants to do it for their own personal pleasure.....is that wrong?
If a God in a storybook slaughters millions of innocent children because he had a tantrum...is that ok?
Says who? Is it ever morally right or good for a person to torture a baby simply for their own personnel pleasure?
You got me. I don't blieve that it is morally right to torture a baby simply for my personal pleasure. In order for me to believe that is never morally right to do so there must be a God, and not just any God but your God and not just your God but your intrepretation of your God and the Bible. You either believe in your God otherwise you must beleive that torturing babies for pleasure may be morally correct sometimes or all the time. Such great logic no wonder no body has been able to refute it.
You could also use that to prove Noah's flood; if you believe it is never moral to torture babies for pleasure there had to be a global flood. Just as logical.
Is it always morally right or correct to stone adultresses or non beleivers? Is it always moral to put to death those who work on the Sabbath? If the conventent changed then the moral laws of your God are not absolute and could be changed at any time he chooses a new set of them. God himself had no problem with burning them alive or drowning them so I would say from God's point of view it is morally right to torture babies as burning them alive seems rather torturous. As there were easier methods of destroying a couple of cities without burning babies alive or to end evil living without drowing babies and bunnies then perhaps he did do those things for personnal pleasure. How would we know?
Even if God would think it would be OK I never would. If he came up with a new set of laws which including torturing babies you would need to follow your God, right?
As most if not all that have said that is is morally wrong to harm others I suspect although not positive that torturing babies falls under the doing harm part.
If society decides that it is a good and moral thing to torture babies for no reason other than the individual doing it wants to do it for their own personal pleasure.....is that wrong?
As with many other "IF" threads that are ridiculous to the point of absurdity, I don't entertain them.
What you ask is quite like when you have been asked that, if god directed you to go and murder all the babies you could find, would you do it?
I notice you won't entertain that one either.
Added....BTW...let's say society decided that killing babies is OK (and, that actually has been done during wartime) why do you keep adding 'for pleasure"?
I'm inclined to say that even if 'society' decided that, with your weird condition added, there wouldn't be any takers other than those that may already doing it for their own warped reasons.
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