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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Even when I was a fundamentalist these findings had no interest to me whatsoever. It was already common knowledge that the traditional church was full of pagan influence.
But not many are aware of the influence on the Bible itself. That really gets to the core of most people's claims of faith.
I wonder why believers don't wonder WHY the early Christians adopted the pagan customs.
And of course your right, very little in the bible was not told before in the cultures and lands around the middle East. Some of the stories are 1000's of years older than purported in the bible.
I wonder why believers don't wonder WHY the early Christians adopted the pagan customs.
And of course your right, very little in the bible was not told before in the cultures and lands around the middle East. Some of the stories are 1000's of years older than purported in the bible.
Conversion. It's easier to bring in believers if you use customs and beliefs they've held, they will be more open. We see it especially with Christmas and Easter...time of year. Christmas, winter solstice. Easter, spring, reawakening.
One thing I don't get is why any of this really matters. As a Christian, I know what my focus is in celebrating Easter, and it doesn't have anything at all to do with what the historical beginnings of the holiday. Every year, somebody brings up this subject and every year we rehash the whole business. It's the same thing with Christmas. I can't imagine there are still that many Christians left for whom Easter's ties to paganism comes as any great surprise, but I suppose I could be wrong.
There are some who don't know, but you're right, it shouldn't matter.
What is interesting is that a certain religion, the Jehovah's Witnesses, find it important to not celebrate certain holidays because they are pagan, yet the God of the old testament was pagan.
"Yahweh appears to have been originally a sky god - a god of thunder and lightning. He was associated with mountains and was called by the enemies of Israel 'a god of the hills'. His manifestation was often as fire, as at Mount Sinai and in the burning bush." "A shorter form, 'Yah', was also used (Exodus 15:2) and some scholars believe that this is the older form, originating in an exclamation to God - 'Yah!' - which came to be accepted as the divine name. Others claim that it is from the root 'hayah', 'to be' or 'to become', and that it meant 'I am that I am' or I will be that I will be'. According to one tradition of the call of Moses, the divine name Yahweh was revealed to him in Egypt: - Great Events of Bible Times:
The Church CRUSHED THE Pagan worship to Istar...... Long ago. No Church references those pagan gods. Certainly not Istar. If Atheist and legalistic denominations didn't tell other Church Christians? The name Istar? They never would now it.
Now The former rites of spring and fertility? Are Americanized to CHILDS PLAY. ROLLING A PLASTIC EGG OR COLORING A HARD BOILED ONE? Does not make a child a pagan child of Istar...LOL. Nor a bunny comic cardboard picture or chocolate bunny they eat.
As long as the child and you? Know the eggs and bunny references at Easter? Are for just Childs play? NOT PART OF WORSHIP TO THE GOD OF ABRAHAM BY OUR JESUS CHRIST? RESURECTION SUNDAY is TOTALLY ABOUT CHRIST AND WHAT HIS TORTURE,DEATH AND RESURRECTION MEAN?
THE TRUE FAITH IS INTACT. WITH UNITY OF MOST OF OUR DIVISIONS SATAN PLANTS? TO HAVE US IN DENOMINATIONS? IN UNITY THIS DAY WE OBSERVE CHRIST PAID OUR PENALTY FOR SIN. WITH OUR FULL ACCEPTANCE IN FAITH AND REPENTANCE.
But I certainly have no problem with Churches observing Passover. As long as we note? Christ became OUR PASSOVER LAMB AND WHY. ALSO HOW HIS SHED BLOOD REDEEMED US FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM ITS POWER AND SAVING GRACE.
I believe that is Ishtar, who was a Babylonian goddess, anyway it where they derive Easter
To me it is Happy Resurrection Day
Last edited by perry335654; 04-04-2015 at 06:52 AM..
As my family background is from the area where these Baltic/Germanic traditions originated, they ring much more real than the Christian usurpers who adapted and adopted then for there own purposes. In fact, even though the area is predominantly Christian, many of those ancient beliefs, practices, and particularly superstitions continue.
I've heard both my mother and grandmother talk about and practice traditions which I now know are steeped deeply in the pagan history of the area.
Those traditions are much older than Christianity, so why would it not be of interest?
I do find it interesting and would like to read the article (it's not readable on my phone for some reason), but I think you missed Katzpur's point. Every Christmas and Easter, someone dashes up in here, shrieking and wild-eyed and waving an ancient parchment with the "discovery" that Christian practices and holidays have pagan origins. And now they're going to imperiously inform those dull-witted Christians all about it.
Not saying this is you, now., but it does get tiresome when people assume Christians don't already know this stuff. I am 56. Katzpur's somewhere in the same age range. We've known some of it since we were kids. My parents were very religious people, yet it was discussed at the dinner table, for example, that the Christmas date was chosen because of solstice observances as the church spread through areas that had their own customs.
I am of Dutch descent. Some of the old-timers used to paint their front door green or put a green shade in a big window. You know, to keep bad spirits out! Oh, they were Christian, but hey, hedge your bets. Cultural traditions define who we are to some extent, as you pointed out with your mention of your own heritage.
So, I think it's a safe bet that most Christians are aware of pagan practices incorporated along the way. The more extreme fundamentalist sects will eschew them. The rest either give them no more credence than a passing amusement or, like me, enjoy learning about them because we like to learn about history and other cultures.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I do find it interesting and would like to read the article (it's not readable on my phone for some reason), but I think you missed Katzpur's point. Every Christmas and Easter, someone dashes up in here, shrieking and wild-eyed and waving an ancient parchment with the "discovery" that Christian practices and holidays have pagan origins. And now they're going to imperiously inform those dull-witted Christians all about it.
Not saying this is you, now., but it does get tiresome when people assume Christians don't already know this stuff. I am 56. Katzpur's somewhere in the same age range. We've known some of it since we were kids. My parents were very religious people, yet it was discussed at the dinner table, for example, that the Christmas date was chosen because of solstice observances as the church spread through areas that had their own customs.
I am of Dutch descent. Some of the old-timers used to paint their front door green or put a green shade in a big window. You know, to keep bad spirits out! Oh, they were Christian, but hey, hedge your bets. Cultural traditions define who we are to some extent, as you pointed out with your mention of your own heritage.
So, I think it's a safe bet that most Christians are aware of pagan practices incorporated along the way. The more extreme fundamentalist sects will eschew them. The rest either give them no more credence than a passing amusement or, like me, enjoy learning about them because we like to learn about history and other cultures.
Me and Katzpur have had interesting discussions in the past, and she represents her beliefs well.
I disagree that most Christians know this stuff. There is some wider spread acknowledgement about the origin of the Christmas tree, but that is about it. A shirttail relative who we will be visiting with this easter is an ex Mormon who graduated from a SBC seminary, and he certainly denies most pagan origin when we discuss them. He should know, but doesn't.
So, does posting these tidbits at the appropriate time of the year do anything? Perhaps. If nothing else they evoke discussion, and perhaps readers will learn something new.
It may also cause some readers to think about where their belief system and practices came from, and acknowledging that much was adapted from others, rather than handed down literally as portrayed in the Bible. That may help in the deconversion process, which I believe is a positive.
There is more than one regular poster here who were quite fundamentalist, and have now used the reason to reevaluate their belief system; many are skeptics for certain, and strong atheists in some cases. The world is a better place when humanism takes precedence over the esoteric.
So, I think it's a safe bet that most Christians are aware of pagan practices incorporated along the way. The more extreme fundamentalist sects will eschew them. The rest either give them no more credence than a passing amusement or, like me, enjoy learning about them because we like to learn about history and other cultures.
Pretty much, yes, this is the way I see it.
As a fundamentalist I was aware of these pagan ritual origins and simply viewed them as corrupting influences, in contrast to our own practices, which tended to restore the purity of the primitive early church. It was very self flattering of course but easily dispensed with just the same. We were against "worldly" ideas and influences as opposed to our deep spiritual understandings. And although I never researched it I had the idea somewhere in my head that these pagan influences were let in or even encouraged by the organized denominations of yesteryear which represented the dry, dead traditions we were against with our "vibrant", "living" faith.
So I am quite sure these pagan origin stories give little to no pause to fundamentalists.
As a fundamentalist I was aware of these pagan ritual origins and simply viewed them as corrupting influences, in contrast to our own practices, which tended to restore the purity of the primitive early church. It was very self flattering of course but easily dispensed with just the same. We were against "worldly" ideas and influences as opposed to our deep spiritual understandings. And although I never researched it I had the idea somewhere in my head that these pagan influences were let in or even encouraged by the organized denominations of yesteryear which represented the dry, dead traditions we were against with our "vibrant", "living" faith.
So I am quite sure these pagan origin stories give little to no pause to fundamentalists.
You may be right. I've met few people in real life who are like the fundamentalists on this forum, so I'll take your word for it as a former part of that world.
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, but it does get tiresome when people assume Christians don't already know this stuff. I am 56. Katzpur's somewhere in the same age range. We've known some of it since we were kids. My parents were very religious people, yet it was discussed at the dinner table, for example, that the Christmas date was chosen because of solstice observances as the church spread through areas that had their own customs.
