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If you are going to make the sweeping generalization that "gay men are promiscuous" I will tell you that men in general are promiscuous, heterosexual men are just as promiscuous as gay men, if not more due to the number of women available to them.
Then why are heterosexual men not contracting HIV at a much higher rate especially if I am to believe other claims that heterosexuals engage in risky sexual behavior at a lot more than gay people? This is still dancing around a very clear fact. Gay men remain the highest affected group by HIV.
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Originally Posted by ElizaTeal
How is "sin at the heart of homosexuality" when monogamous gay couples are asking for same sex marriage? Marriage will discourage promiscuity. Jeff, it seems anyone who doesn't agree with Christian doctrine is a sinner, why so many posts about a small population of gay people?
Sin is sin. Dressing it up in a holy marriage doesn't make it less sinful. Sin always is destructive and carries consequences. I bet if you could view into the life path of every person who cheated on their spouse, you would see a resulting consequence that made the brief act of pleasure certainly not worth it. Sexual sin has destroyed lives, careers, and people's health.
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Originally Posted by ElizaTeal
When it comes to sinners, you really should be casting a wider net, starting with but not limited to adulterers looking to remarry. Wouldn't it be just as sinful to bake a wedding cake for an adulterer's second, or third wedding? Why does the sin of adultery get a pass?
This is an obvious attempt at deflection, but I'll address it. The two are not exactly the same. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality. The sin of adultery is a lot more complicated. Jesus did say divorce was permitted in cases of sexual immorality. Also, although the Bible doesn't address it, I can't imagine that God would be displeased with someone who divorced because they were in a physically or emotionally abusive relationship. Do you really expect a baker to ask their customer to fill out a quiz to determine what their cause of divorce was?
Second, even if the divorce was made for the wrong reasons, God does forgive sin. I've seen God work through the lives of married couples who were previously divorced. But homosexuality is different. A SSM is commitment to CONTINUE living in a lifestyle that is a great offense before God. Now if someone came in saying they wanted a cake to celebrate cheating on their spouse, the Christian baker most likely would refuse in that scenario as well.
Now if someone came in saying they wanted a cake to celebrate cheating on their spouse, the Christian baker most likely would refuse in that scenario as well.
Lol....Christian bakers would go out of business if they stopped being hypocrites. What to do...what to do....There's only so much gofundme money to go around. Do Christian bakers make cakes for fundamentalists obsessed with homosexuals? It's an untapped market. They could pull in serious coin.
"Welcome to Christian Cupcakes! Today's special is buy one, get one free. But you have to prove you're straight before we'll sell it to you."
Then why are heterosexual men not contracting HIV at a much higher rate especially if I am to believe other claims that heterosexuals engage in risky sexual behavior at a lot more than gay people? This is still dancing around a very clear fact. Gay men remain the highest affected group by HIV.
Sin is sin. Dressing it up in a holy marriage doesn't make it less sinful. Sin always is destructive and carries consequences. I bet if you could view into the life path of every person who cheated on their spouse, you would see a resulting consequence that made the brief act of pleasure certainly not worth it. Sexual sin has destroyed lives, careers, and people's health.
This is an obvious attempt at deflection, but I'll address it. The two are not exactly the same. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality. The sin of adultery is a lot more complicated. Jesus did say divorce was permitted in cases of sexual immorality. Also, although the Bible doesn't address it, I can't imagine that God would be displeased with someone who divorced because they were in a physically or emotionally abusive relationship. Do you really expect a baker to ask their customer to fill out a quiz to determine what their cause of divorce was?
Second, even if the divorce was made for the wrong reasons, God does forgive sin. I've seen God work through the lives of married couples who were previously divorced. But homosexuality is different. A SSM is commitment to CONTINUE living in a lifestyle that is a great offense before God. Now if someone came in saying they wanted a cake to celebrate cheating on their spouse, the Christian baker most likely would refuse in that scenario as well.
Still straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. In the United States, the most common STDs are, in order:
HPV (Human Papillomavirus
Chlamydia
Gonnorrhea
Syphilis
Herpes
Trichomoniasis (more women than men get this disease)
HIV/AIDS
(source: Most Common STDs for Women and Men: Symptoms and Treatment)
More than 20 STDs have been identified and they affect an estimated 19 million men and women in this country each year. The annual treatment cost of STDs in the United States is estimated to be in excess of $14 billion. http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/wo...sheets/std.htm
So I guess the question is--why do you concentrate so much on protecting society from one of the lesser STDs that supposedly ONLY affects gay men (since you deny the Kaiser Foundation Report that stated worldwide 50% of HIV infections are among women)? According to Wikipedia there are only 3.8% of Americans who are LGBT--so it's not possible for more than roughly 2% of the population to be homosexual men. (LGBT demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) They are simply overwhelmed by the number of heterosexuals. So with about 320 million people in the U.S., YOUR concern is about six million men who, if every single on of them had HIV, wouldn't equal the number of Chlamydia cases in the U.S. in a single year.
Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
The story you create is to protect your bigotry--it has nothing to do with facts.
Now when it comes to defining sin--you chose to define homosexuality as sin. I chose to define Pharisaical bible thumpers as practicing sin. If you read the last article I published, all your buddies are picking up their marbles and going home--the battle is over.
Maybe not for those who have latent homosexual tendencies.
Here is further proof of how Jeff and his comrades CONTRIBUTE to the problem of HIV in the United States by their blanket condemnation of homosexual men.
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Low rates of condom use.
In a 2013 survey in the United States, of the 34% of high scholl students reporting sexual intercourse in the previous 3 months, 41% did not use a condom.
High rates of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). Some of the highest STD rates in the United States are among youth aged 20 to 24, especially those of minority races and ethnicities. The presence of an STD greatly increases a person's likelihood of acquiring or transmitting HIV.
Substance use.
Nearly half (47%) of youth aged 12 to 20 reported current alcohol use in 2011, and 10% of youth aged 12 to 17 said they were current users of illicit drugs. Among the 34% of sexually active students nationwide, 22% had drunk alcohol or drugs before last sexual intercourse. Substance use has been linked to HIV infection because both causal and chronic substance users are more likely to engage in high-risk behaviors, such as sex without a condom, when they are under the influence of drugs or alchol.
Homelessness.
Runaways, homeless youth, and youth who have become dependent on drugs are at high risk for HIV infection if they exchange sex for drugs, money, or shelter.
Inadequate HIV prevention education.
Young people are not always reached by effective HIV interventions or prevention education-especially young gay and bisexual men, because some education programs exclude information about sexual orientation.
Feelings of isolation. Gay and bisexual high school students may engage in risky sexual behaviors and substance abuse because they feel isolated and lack support.
Now let's see. From the pulpit "loving" Christian pastors are teaching that homosexuals are sinful people, they also do not want the government to support the biggest reducer of STD transmission--the free distribution of condoms in high schools where THIRTY-FOUR PERCENT of students are having sex anyway, they don't want sexual orientation to be mentioned in sex education classes (if they are even for that), they tell their own families with homosexual children to badger their children about their "choice" until those kids either run away (homeless) or start using drugs or alcohol to escape the torment from good "christian" parents. And I guess it's all racial as well, since minorities are more likely to engage in risky behaviors.
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Gay rights campaigner Dan Savage said the idea that churches send out an anti-gay message "totally jibes with my experience and that of millions of other gay and lesbian people."
He cited Joel Burns, a Forth Worth, Texas, city councilman whose emotional tale of being bullied as a young gay man went viral on the internet.
"He remembers being told to go home and commit suicide and that he was going to hell," Savage said, adding that the source of such attitudes "wasn't in algebra."
Leaders of the Christian right "have redefined Christianity so that it is about being anti-gay," he said.
So, how does Jeff and comrades equate being told they HAVE to bake a cake for a gay wedding as the same as their churches teaching members to tell young gay men to go home and commit suicide?
Oh, that's right--their Bible says a man with a man is an abomination and they are going to take every opportunity to point it out to gay men.
As one Christian pointed out the problem being created by the Jeffs and company:
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We Christians can say that we’re only trying to follow God. We can say that we personally would never do anything to hurt a gay person. We can say that we love the sinner, but hate their sin. We can say anything.
But let’s not insult ourselves and anyone listening to us by saying that we don’t understand the relationship between the gay teen suicide rate, and the common, absolute Christian condemnation of gays. We deserve better than that.
Wrong. I presented evidence from Denmark which has had SSM for 15 years. No evidence at all that HIV rates have drastically decreased. No evidence that gay men are staying monogamous.
Once again you start with an accurate description of what follows. The second sentence is indeed wrong because firstly it is a lie. You presented no evidence of Denmark. You claimed you were ABOUT to give evidence of Denmark, but you cited a small study focusing solely on Amsterdam. If I claimed to be showing you a study about the US and my study was actually solely based in New York.... would you consider me honest?
Secondly, your claim before was that SSM would cause an INCREASE in STD and more. So your focusing on a lack of decrease in one city in no way substantiates the claim you actually made.
Thirdly, I called you on the problems with the amsterdam figures, and you ran away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
For all your bluster, still no answer to my question.
You ignoring every answer I have given to the question does not mean I never gave one. You have simply systematically skipped over, dodged, run away from and ignored post after post from me, in a litany of posts I can give links to to anyone who DMs me and asks, where your questions have been answered numerous times. The only one dodging here is you and you think you can cover up that fact by screaming that everyone else is dodging.
I am happy to answer them again, I am not tired:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
How are gay men contracting HIV at an alarming rate if it has nothing to promiscuous or sexual activity?
As I said the rates are not as high as you warp them to be. Your figures are willfully distorted by a number of underhanded cherry pickings of the data set which I have covered time and time again. That is not to say they are not higher in the Homosexual Male community than any other, but they are simply not as high as your agenda spins it.
The reasons for it are manifold and complex. And I have covered them all before in the posts you have dodged, skipped, run away from and ignored. You would have us believe it is simple as all gay men being promiscuous anal fixated fiends, despite all the numbers and studies you have been shown related to Gay Monogamy and the actual rates of anal sex (which is a minority practice in that community).
The main foundation for the complexity is that it was this community originally hit hardest by the epidemic in the first place, and so it is in this community that rates will be slowest to drop and normalize. One must recall that HIV is still a relatively new condition in the greater scheme of things and not enough time has passed frankly for differential infection rates to normalize. You spew numbers like "15 years" in a shrill monotone as if you understand those numbers, but you clearly do not. 15 years in terms of disease vectoring is a blink.
Couple that with what has historically been the underground, furtive, hidden nature of Homosexuality where gay men were confined to bath houses and truck stops to get their sexual outlets.... in a community hated by society in general.... and you have a recipe for disaster.
But this is changing and the future looks bright. But it is a long term future. Not 1 year or 15 years, but a measurement in generations. Sexual awareness, sexual knowledge and openness, SSM marriage and more are all progressing, and archaic standpoints like your own are simply losing and dying out. Start getting used to it.
I keep seeing the latent homosexuality those psychologists speak of coming up again and again.
Here is the latest:
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A Michigan pastor who'd previously expressed anti-gay sentiments resigned this week after his profile on Grindr was revealed.
Matthew Makela resigned from the St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland, Michigan, shortly after the website Queerty published photos and texts on Monday revealing Makela's activity on Grindr, an app where men can seek out same-sex relationships and encounters.
Makela confirmed that the Grindr profile was his in an email exchange with Queerty, but declined to comment further. The former pastor did not immediately return a request for comment from The Huffington Post.
Queerty, which said it had received the screenshots from an anonymous source, has listed several examples of Makela making derogatory remarks about gays and transgender people.
In November, for example, another pastor wrote a letter to a local newspaper that described same-sex attraction as "a sinful temptation to be resisted and overcome by God’s grace and power, just as a temptation to steal or lie or overeat must be resisted and overcome." Makela posted a comment to the paper's website in which he endorsed the other pastor's views and compared homosexuality to alcoholism. The comment has since been deleted.
In another instance, Makela wrote in a March Facebook post that "the transgender movement is going to assist opportunistic sickos in preying upon children and others." That post, too, has since been deleted.
--------------
Makela is only the latest in a long series of anti-gay clergy members and politicians to be outed. In 2010, Lutheran pastor Tom Brock was put on leave from his Minneapolis church after Lavender magazine reported that he attended a support group for people trying to rid themselves of same-sex attraction.
Brock had previously suggested that God disrupted a gathering of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America with a tornado because of the church's liberal policy on gay clergy members.
Yep, the more they speak out against all that "sinfulness," the more they are involved themselves and unable to come to grips with their own humanity.
The latent homosexuals are the biggest homophobes in churches, political arenas, and, yep, on CD.
Wow, you have a case of one guy as support for your ridiculous assertion. Proves nothing.
OTOH, this article is a lot more relevant to the discussion. I knew all these pro-gay studies were fishy. I find it hard to believe that most Americans have completely done a 180 in such a short time and now greatly support SSM. Study after study nowdays reveal nothing but glowing positive results for gay people. It sounds like a whole lot of manipulating going on here:
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It seemed increasingly clear to Green that no follow-up surveys had ever been conducted and that LaCour may have taken data from existing studies and manipulated the numbers to achieve the results he wanted.
Green told The Huffington Post that he was shocked and dismayed by the revelations about the data set. “There was a mountain of fabrication,” he said. “Graphs and charts and anecdotes and stories of every possible sort about these surveys.
And this is one of those times we agree, though I have no doubt in the future it will not stop you returning to your rhetoric that I never agree with anything you say. I too am dubious of numbers showing a sudden mass change in public opinion on Homosexuality and SSM.
Oh I expect it to be large no doubt, it has become so normalized in our culture, our media, and our entertainment. Each new generation comes forth with less and less issue with it. But it cant be AS good as some figures how.
But we will see. More and more votes related to things like SSM are going the right way in my opinion, and we will see how the constitutional amendment referendum tomorrow goes in Ireland to see if my own country has been pulled into the modernity on this issue too. Though one has cause to doubt.
Now let's see. From the pulpit "loving" Christian pastors are teaching that homosexuals are sinful people, they also do not want the government to support the biggest reducer of STD transmission--the free distribution of condoms in high schools where THIRTY-FOUR PERCENT of students are having sex anyway, they don't want sexual orientation to be mentioned in sex education classes (if they are even for that), they tell their own families with homosexual children to badger their children about their "choice" until those kids either run away (homeless) or start using drugs or alcohol to escape the torment from good "christian" parents. And I guess it's all racial as well, since minorities are more likely to engage in risky behaviors.
So, how does Jeff and comrades equate being told they HAVE to bake a cake for a gay wedding as the same as their churches teaching members to tell young gay men to go home and commit suicide?
Oh, that's right--their Bible says a man with a man is an abomination and they are going to take every opportunity to point it out to gay men.
Do you think "the devil made me do it" will fly with God on judgement day? You are still personally accountable for your actions. Christians didn't force them to engage in risky behavior or commit suicide. The blame game is now a common social problem that is creating rot in our society.
Do you think "the devil made me do it" will fly with God on judgement day? You are still personally accountable for your actions. Christians didn't force them to engage in risky behavior or commit suicide. The blame game is now a common social problem that is creating rot in our society.
You literally fear an imaginary being in the sky. Think of the absurdity of that.
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Another vehemently anti-gay pastor is "outed"
