Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"When man does not believe in God, he does not accept the difference between right and wrong. Without guidance from God, he will walk into every trap laid down before him by Satan. So much hatred is then manifested in the hearts of man, because once they leave themselves open to the evil one, their hearts fill with anger. The worst anger will be directed at Christians, and yet these people will not know why they feel this way. This is why those who claim not to believe in God spend more time condemning those who do.
Pray, pray, pray for their souls."
Satan is a powerful adversary, and if you do not believe in God, you have no defense against Satan, who can literally inject thoughts into your mind and make you think they are your own. This is a power he achieved over man when he corrupted us via Original Sin. Most of the thoughts he projects are hatred, criticism, and thoughts filled with pride and anger. He tends to target Christians the most, who are by no means immune, but those who are aware and pray often have a stronger defense.
"When man does not believe in God, he does not accept the difference between right and wrong. Without guidance from God, he will walk into every trap laid down before him by Satan. So much hatred is then manifested in the hearts of man, because once they leave themselves open to the evil one, their hearts fill with anger. The worst anger will be directed at Christians, and yet these people will not know why they feel this way. This is why those who claim not to believe in God spend more time condemning those who do.
Pray, pray, pray for their souls."
LOL! Has it ever occurred to you that the reason non-believers get so angry is because of posts like this one? Proclaiming that those who do not believe have no understanding of right and wrong? We get so tired of hearing this ridiculous Christian trope again and again -- and no matter how often and easily such a statement is debunked and argued down, there's always someone like you to come around and accuse us of being immoral.
Sorry, pal, but unless you've actually read your Bible, you'll never really know where immorality really exists. How can you possibly compare how rank and file atheists live to the wanton death, destruction, physical and mental torture, and gratuitous animal abuse committed by or in the name of your God?
The Bible is soaked in the blood of innocents, covered with the gore of those God murdered -- often for no better reason than to prove a point or because he was angry and jealous that some group of people aren't worshiping him. At least that's what the Bible says.
What's more is that your religion teaches ignorance, bigotry, hatred, and intolerance -- whether you blame it all on Satan or not, the mistrust and suspicion of non-believers all but oozes from your posts. We see every day the affect fanatical religious belief has on people and in every case and in every religion fanaticism leads to hatred, condemnation, scapegoating, and bigoted worldviews directed toward any and everyone who does not believe as you do.
You claim we need guidance from God to be righteous and good. What guidance would that be? Unfortunately for you, we've had to either ignore the Bible or go beyond it in order to obtain a moral system that isn't based upon fear, paranoia, authoritarian decrees, the threat of imprisonment, torture, and exile. Religious morality forced upon a societal whole has never once, not ever in all of human history, produced a benevolent, free, democratic, and just civilization. I can't stress that enough. Guidance from God inevitably and unilaterally leads to fascism, authoritarianism, oppression, and warfare.
Study your history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibioiniui
Satan is a powerful adversary, and if you do not believe in God, you have no defense against Satan, who can literally inject thoughts into your mind and make you think they are your own.
There is an even more powerful adversary -- ignorance. Without the power of knowledge, one might wallow in the darkness of superstition, mythology, and ancient books. One just might decide to blame everything bad on supernatural demonic forces like, oh, Moloch, Beelzebub, Pazuzu, Orcus, Asmodeus, and any number of other powerful demon princes. When one is ignorant, his mind never advances or evolves and instead clings to the fearful, paranoid worldview once held by ancient primitives who thought comets were omens of death, plagues were a sign of God's anger, and who felt that horrible terror of everything that exists in the darkness at the edge of their firelight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibioiniui
This is a power he achieved over man when he corrupted us via Original Sin. Most of the thoughts he projects are hatred, criticism, and thoughts filled with pride and anger. He tends to target Christians the most, who are by no means immune, but those who are aware and pray often have a stronger defense.
Guess what -- you're just not that important. Neither is the human race. The supreme arrogance once must feel to believe that humans, especially Christians, are at the epicenter of some massive cosmic battle between God and Satan for the possession of our souls ... it boggles the mind. Talk about being filled with pride, heh.
Yes, it's easy to dismiss everything we say merely because your holy books and so-called "prophets" headed us off at the pass by claiming, "But people will be critical of your beliefs and may not believe, they are Satan's pawns, do not listen to their poison words!!"
Well, that's fine. It's really not my loss. I'm just very grateful and happy that I do not live in the benighted world you have chosen for your home. It's a dangerous thing, really, to have a society with so much technological power and yet whose worldviews and mentalities are still ensnared in a windless sargasso sea. I still believe that religious fanaticism and battles over who can be the most ignorant will be the eventual death of us all ... if we are fated to become extinct, of course.
It's always interesting to me that people think this Satan being is apparently omnipresent, able to constantly "inject thoughts" into billions of people at the same time. And yet, according to the same religion, the omni-'s are supposed to be God's territory, aren't they?
LOL! Has it ever occurred to you that the reason non-believers get so angry is because of posts like this one?
I don't remember which thread but someone else was wondering just yesterday when a particular poster would get a patented "Shirina shellacking" as you have not been active for a few days. Well here is a great one. We miss you when you're unable to be here :-)
Last night I read an argument similar to the one you're using in the post I'm responding to and the argument was constructed in a way that was a little new to me. But the point (potentially worthy of its own thread) is that faith is not in any way a mechanism for determining truth because it is not empirically anchored in anything and has no checks or balances. In other words it is a failed epistemology because its assertions are untestable and untested.
An example was given: Islam claims that Mohammed was the "last prophet". Then Mormonism comes along and ascribes prophethood to Joseph Smith, centuries later. Both claims cannot be true, but both can be false. Both are faith claims, backed by zero evidence. Even within Christendom, there are endless examples of conflicting claims like that.
The bottom line is that faith is just not a mechanism to determine the (un)truth of anything. It is just people making claims and claiming that god is on their side in the matter.
It's always interesting to me that people think this Satan being is apparently omnipresent, able to constantly "inject thoughts" into billions of people at the same time. And yet, according to the same religion, the omni-'s are supposed to be God's territory, aren't they?
A cogent and worthy point. However, it's not really a problem if your beliefs aren't reality-based. You simply say that Satan is not quite omni-anything, yet very powerful relative to humans and therefore to be respected (and in practice, feared).
I must say though that such people give Satan more credit for effortlessly exerting mind-control and thought-injection on people in a way that's far superior to god's wimpy, "still, small voice" which no one other than the person making claims for what god says, seems to correctly hear, much less want to obey. You have to devote your life to straining to hear god's coy suggestions, while Satan is always blaring at your other ear with a bullhorn!
And that's the other thing about Satan's alleged thoughts. Broad is the way that Satan is said to lay out, while narrow is the way laid out by God. How much sense does that make? Deliberately calling god narrow-minded and inflexible and picky and unattractive? And then giving Satan the hot cars, fast women and hoards of cash and just general bling? Seems like working against human nature ... unless of course your'e trying to create a situation in which human nature is seen as the problem for which you claim to have the fix.
I must say though that such people give Satan more credit for effortlessly exerting mind-control and thought-injection on people in a way that's far superior to god's wimpy, "still, small voice" which no one other than the person making claims for what god says, seems to correctly hear, much less want to obey. You have to devote your life to straining to hear god's coy suggestions, while Satan is always blaring at your other ear with a bullhorn!
.
LOL! Has it ever occurred to you that the reason non-believers get so angry is because of posts like this one? Proclaiming that those who do not believe have no understanding of right and wrong? We get so tired of hearing this ridiculous Christian trope again and again -- and no matter how often and easily such a statement is debunked and argued down, there's always someone like you to come around and accuse us of being immoral.
Hello there. Unfortunately, we as humans get angry for many valid reasons, but anger is never a pleasant emotion, or a desirable one. It clouds the mind in all circumstances and blinds us, divides us, and separates us. This affects everyone, believer and non-believer, because we are all born of sin.
Quote:
Sorry, pal, but unless you've actually read your Bible, you'll never really know where immorality really exists. How can you possibly compare how rank and file atheists live to the wanton death, destruction, physical and mental torture, and gratuitous animal abuse committed by or in the name of your God?
The Bible is soaked in the blood of innocents, covered with the gore of those God murdered -- often for no better reason than to prove a point or because he was angry and jealous that some group of people aren't worshiping him. At least that's what the Bible says.
The Bible is much more simple and clear than that. In every case, its God saying "do this and you will prosper", or "don't do this or things will go bad for you"; mankind subsequently disobeys, and God's warning came to pass. If a Father warns His kid not to drive on the other side of the freeway or risk a major accident, and the kid does so anyways and gets killed in a car accident, can you call the Father evil?
In every case in the Bible, it was man who started wars, man who sacrificed/immolated their children to false Gods, man who tried to gang rape and sodomize visitors: man who ignored 10 simple commandments. Sometimes their sins were so great and so destructive, that unless God intervened, more people would have lost their lives than necessary. Sodom and Gomorrah comes into mind.
Quote:
What's more is that your religion teaches ignorance, bigotry, hatred, and intolerance -- whether you blame it all on Satan or not, the mistrust and suspicion of non-believers all but oozes from your posts. We see every day the affect fanatical religious belief has on people and in every case and in every religion fanaticism leads to hatred, condemnation, scapegoating, and bigoted worldviews directed toward any and everyone who does not believe as you do.
Hatred, condemnation, scapegoating, and bigoted worldviews are independent of whether one believes in God or not - we are all humans born with original sin, and are thus prone to these negative temptations. The Bible declares the source of these negative emotions and how to overcome them. And its as simple as love your neighbor as yourself. I doubt you hate, condemn, scapegoat, and are bigoted towards yourself. Why do so towards your neighbor, regardless of what he believes?
Quote:
You claim we need guidance from God to be righteous and good. What guidance would that be? Unfortunately for you, we've had to either ignore the Bible or go beyond it in order to obtain a moral system that isn't based upon fear, paranoia, authoritarian decrees, the threat of imprisonment, torture, and exile. Religious morality forced upon a societal whole has never once, not ever in all of human history, produced a benevolent, free, democratic, and just civilization. I can't stress that enough. Guidance from God inevitably and unilaterally leads to fascism, authoritarianism, oppression, and warfare.
Study your history.
That's actually not true. God gave some very simple commandments - honor your mother and father, do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not desire to do any wrong to your neighbor. Which nation has actually done that to the T? Not even the Israelites who were given these commandments did so. And they became so evil that God let Rome wipe them out after they crucified Him.
It's a condridiction to say that following the 10 commandments would lead to oppressive governments -> its the lack of following those 10 simple commandments that lead to fascism, authoritarianism, oppression, and warfare. It is mankind, going against God, that causes chaos. Which of those 10 commandments can you say would lead to chaos if followed?
Quote:
There is an even more powerful adversary -- ignorance. Without the power of knowledge, one might wallow in the darkness of superstition, mythology, and ancient books. One just might decide to blame everything bad on supernatural demonic forces like, oh, Moloch, Beelzebub, Pazuzu, Orcus, Asmodeus, and any number of other powerful demon princes. When one is ignorant, his mind never advances or evolves and instead clings to the fearful, paranoid worldview once held by ancient primitives who thought comets were omens of death, plagues were a sign of God's anger, and who felt that horrible terror of everything that exists in the darkness at the edge of their firelight.
Here you are correct in that ignorance is a powerful adversary. Ignorance of God being the most powerful. Again, I ask you, what is wrong with the following commandments:
Do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not bear false witness, do not desire to wrong your neighbor, honor your mother and father
Tell me clearly how following those commandments would lead single person to evil. That's all God asks of us, His children. Love your neighbor as yourself. When men don't listen, how can you possibly blame God?
I don't remember which thread but someone else was wondering just yesterday when a particular poster would get a patented "Shirina shellacking" as you have not been active for a few days. Well here is a great one. We miss you when you're unable to be here :-)
Yeah, I had a miserable streak of unrelenting pain and didn't feel like getting out of bed much less giving a Christian a good "shellacking." I tend to be really angry and aggressive when I post while in pain and I don't want to be just a big bully (though no doubt some think I already am )
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
An example was given: Islam claims that Mohammed was the "last prophet". Then Mormonism comes along and ascribes prophethood to Joseph Smith, centuries later. Both claims cannot be true, but both can be false. Both are faith claims, backed by zero evidence. Even within Christendom, there are endless examples of conflicting claims like that.
Yep, to me that is one of the justifications for atheism. Apparently, every God who demands obedience and worship expects humanity to sift through dozens of religions and gods in order to risk their eternal souls by picking one almost at random (but mostly based on geographical and cultural happenstance). Once you decide which god to worship, you almost have to become fanatically convinced that your religion is the right one otherwise you'd drive yourself crazy wondering if, perhaps, that religion over there isn't the true religion, or perhaps the one down the street!
It reminds me of that duck game found in most carnivals and amusement parks. The plastic ducks move around in an oval-shaped trough filled with moving water -- and kids pick one of the ducks at random. On the bottom of the duck is a prize. Most prizes are junk, but there is one duck in there somewhere that wins you that human-sized teddy bear that you really really want.
With religion, though, even if you pick a duck that wins them a crappy key chain, plastic necklace, or a whistle, they still stomp around proclaiming that they just won the greatest prize EVER and no amount of teddy bears will ever change their minds!
Of course, we all assume one of the ducks will win you that big teddy bear. But how do we REALLY know that for sure?
It all comes down to that very simple logical algorithm -- all religions cannot be right, but they CAN all be wrong. This to me is the logic that drives atheism; the idea that we have to pretty much randomly pick a duck and hope it sends us to heaven and not hell is patently preposterous.
It all comes down to that very simple logical algorithm -- all religions cannot be right, but they CAN all be wrong. This to me is the logic that drives atheism; the idea that we have to pretty much randomly pick a duck and hope it sends us to heaven and not hell is patently preposterous.
All religions can be wrong in some or all of their beliefs about the nature of God, but I don't see how it necessarily follows that no-God is the correct or only default.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
