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That's simply not true of ALL of us who are Jesus followers. On the other hand fundamentalist christianity is losing the battle to win the hearts of millinneals exactly because fundamentalists won't engage in discussion with them. The fundies just want to TELL folks what they should believe.
There is a relatively small group of Christians of whom I am a part that believes God loves everyone without exception and that everyone has an innate ability to help humanity grow in its morality. Not all will do so, and some may hinder as do fundamentalists.
So I don't tell you how to think, and I assess your own posts to attempt to learn still more. A real believer is never done learning from any source.
It may not be true of "ALL of us", but when I was raised in the Methodist church, there were no discussions. The minister (a very fine minister, Reverent Eugene Durham) preached to/at us. When I was a Catholic, the priest preached his homilies and told us what we could and couldn't do.
I'm glad -- at least preliminarily -- to hear that "Jesus followers" are different. I've never met one.
That's simply not true of ALL of us who are Jesus followers. On the other hand fundamentalist christianity is losing the battle to win the hearts of millinneals exactly because fundamentalists won't engage in discussion with them. The fundies just want to TELL folks what they should believe.
There is a relatively small group of Christians of whom I am a part that believes God loves everyone without exception and that everyone has an innate ability to help humanity grow in its morality. Not all will do so, and some may hinder as do fundamentalists.
So I don't tell you how to think, and I assess your own posts to attempt to learn still more. A real believer is never done learning from any source.
Any source except Jews and fundamentalists, you mean. Peace
It may not be true of "ALL of us", but when I was raised in the Methodist church, there were no discussions. The minister (a very fine minister, Reverent Eugene Durham) preached to/at us. When I was a Catholic, the priest preached his homilies and told us what we could and couldn't do.
I'm glad -- at least preliminarily -- to hear that "Jesus followers" are different. I've never met one.
You haven't met my Methodist pastor. I joined Methodists only a few months ago. Many of their doctrines I disagree with, but they beat those of my Southern Baptist heritage that I left after being licensed as one of their preachers and receiving biblical education in one of their universities and serving as a Vice President of Development at that school some years later. But they took the slippery slope downhill and began firing their more moderate professors and administrators.
Our western region of the UMC has a lesbian Bishop although she may be subjected to recall by the UMC Council in 2019. She is on "trial" so to speak.
There have been numerous statistical studies as to the "graying" of all churches. One of the big reasons is that they haven't allowed questions and refuse to accept doubts about the efficacy of the church with regard to social issues, treatment of LGBTQ people, science, and doctrine. The hateful churches will still garner a few hateful people because it is easier to be prejudiced and see yourself as superior than it is to be thoughtful, empathetic with those not like oneself, and to love one's enemies.
My pastor has a one night a week meeting with individuals from his church to talk about current events and the response Christians should have to them. He gets opinions from different viewpoints and we get to see ourselves as a community of believers able to stand with one another in spite of differences in doctrinal, political, or social views. All are free to come (we usually number fewer than ten) and our pastor will reach out to those who are quieter to share their thoughts. We even had an atheist come whose mother is a stalwart member. He has finally become a Jesus follower minus the bibliolatry of so many churches.
Jesus followers are hard to spot because their voices are drowned out by the multitude of bibliolators who teach the Bible as an authoritarian rule book rather than a witness to the love of God. Some writers of Scripture did better than others in getting that message across. It takes intelligence, wisdom, a sense of morality (that atheists often are better at than many Christians) and a bit of scholastic study to grasp the best revelations of Scripture. Over the centuries those revelations have grown to new understandings of morality. Fundamentalists remain steeped in a prejudice that Scripture has always remained the same---and it is their own beliefs that prevail.
On another thread I asked how Scripture could be viewed as infallible and inherent when fundamentalists themselves have ideas about the Atonement of Christ, the Security of the Believer, the primary message of Paul, what "Hell" is, and the End Times that all conflict with one another. Not a single fundamentalist responded. They can't. They show their own flaws with regard to interpreting what is "inerrant and infallible."
But I pray you will find a Jesus follower. You will know him/her by the life they lead, not the doctrines they may espouse.
God bless.
P.S. I'm in Parker! So our Methodist Bishop is over the district you live in.
You haven't met my Methodist pastor. I joined Methodists only a few months ago. Many of their doctrines I disagree with, but they beat those of my Southern Baptist heritage that I left after being licensed as one of their preachers and receiving biblical education in one of their universities and serving as a Vice President of Development at that school some years later. But they took the slippery slope downhill and began firing their more moderate professors and administrators.
Our western region of the UMC has a lesbian Bishop although she may be subjected to recall by the UMC Council in 2019. She is on "trial" so to speak.
There have been numerous statistical studies as to the "graying" of all churches. One of the big reasons is that they haven't allowed questions and refuse to accept doubts about the efficacy of the church with regard to social issues, treatment of LGBTQ people, science, and doctrine. The hateful churches will still garner a few hateful people because it is easier to be prejudiced and see yourself as superior than it is to be thoughtful, empathetic with those not like oneself, and to love one's enemies.
My pastor has a one night a week meeting with individuals from his church to talk about current events and the response Christians should have to them. He gets opinions from different viewpoints and we get to see ourselves as a community of believers able to stand with one another in spite of differences in doctrinal, political, or social views. All are free to come (we usually number fewer than ten) and our pastor will reach out to those who are quieter to share their thoughts. We even had an atheist come whose mother is a stalwart member. He has finally become a Jesus follower minus the bibliolatry of so many churches.
Jesus followers are hard to spot because their voices are drowned out by the multitude of bibliolators who teach the Bible as an authoritarian rule book rather than a witness to the love of God. Some writers of Scripture did better than others in getting that message across. It takes intelligence, wisdom, a sense of morality (that atheists often are better at than many Christians) and a bit of scholastic study to grasp the best revelations of Scripture. Over the centuries those revelations have grown to new understandings of morality. Fundamentalists remain steeped in a prejudice that Scripture has always remained the same---and it is their own beliefs that prevail.
On another thread I asked how Scripture could be viewed as infallible and inherent when fundamentalists themselves have ideas about the Atonement of Christ, the Security of the Believer, the primary message of Paul, what "Hell" is, and the End Times that all conflict with one another. Not a single fundamentalist responded. They can't. They show their own flaws with regard to interpreting what is "inerrant and infallible."
But I pray you will find a Jesus follower. You will know him/her by the life they lead, not the doctrines they may espouse.
God bless.
P.S. I'm in Parker! So our Methodist Bishop is over the district you live in.
I have not experienced this much- except on this website! I try to keep my focus on my relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. People are going to do whatever they want to- I'm powerless over how they respond. We are to witness, but we are not responsible for how others respond. The darkness hates the light- that will never change.
I'm pagan. I consider myself wiccan. It is not evangelical. You do not have the right to tell someone else their belief is wrong, since we are all unique beings. Nor is there a 'correct' faith. I believe we get back what we give, and this does not mean you must be part of my belief. It's called the law of return. If we give respect and kindness and understanding we may get it back. If we give the mean and the negative then the universe will reward you with the same. So how we treat others is in part which defines what comes to us.
I often wear a pent. It's a statement I publically make about myself. If someone of the Christan persuation wants to talk about Jesus, I'm not interested. I would not corner them and say lets talk about the Goddess. I expect the same in return. I'm very happy for the stranger who intrudes having something they believe in which makes their life better, but they don't get to intrude on others feelings and beliefs unless that person has given them permission.
If you Witness by selling your own belief without permission and curiosity, you are responsible for the others reaction since you did not have permission to bring it up. This is my chief problem with *some* christians in that they feel that they have the right to question others beliefs without those persons wishing to have the conversation.
If you don't intrude in others choices and keep your religion to yourself unless asked, then you are offering information, which can be explored or not. If you intrude and insist your brand is the 'true' faith, then you are responsible for the negative response and the negative reflection of your belief you give.
And the darkness hating the light. The implication is that christianity is right and nobody else is. Yes, darkness is a negative place, but it is necessary. It gives balance to all the light of the god figure, whatever it is. For too many it is made of anger and meanness and the certainty that you are right over anyone else. Light shows this as a lie. We are all given the gift of finding our spiritual place whereever and inside any belief which works for them. One 'right belief is a lie. Light is a *chosen* place where spirit finds its comfort and moves into a fuller self, but that self is about all the faces of spirit, not just one. How one acknowleges it is a human thing. None are more 'right' than any other. So if you intrude into anothers and deny it, you are drawing the negative to you, and there is no light. But you can also choose to accept that others do not believe what you do, and you do not have a right to get in their face and question it.
Answering the question in the name of the thread... Like *any* faction, they are not allowed as each of us finds our own spiritual place, and while another can open a door, only the person can choose to step through it WHEN they choose to and IF they do without encouragement.
And you do not have to believe in the christan god to find and embrase the truely spiritual, especially if its pushed on them from an agressive subculture who believes they alone are the true faith.
Last edited by nightbird47; 10-22-2017 at 11:02 AM..
Any source except Jews and fundamentalists, you mean. Peace
Gotta love these one-sentence 'stingers'. You think you're scoring points, but you're just sounding arrogant.
No. Any source. I may not agree with what they believe, but I will examine what they believe and seek to understand why they believe it.
I understand why fundamentalists believe what they do, though I do not agree with most of it. Fundamentalist belief fails the 'logic test' much too often to satisfy me as a spiritual path, and so I seek my truths elsewhere.
Somehow, my refusal to submit to fundamentalist 'groupthink' is seen as a personal insult.
So, yes, I will learn all that I can, even from those with whom I disagree. I prefer to be well-informed, instead of spouting half-truths because I refuse to educate myself.
I just don't understand why we cannot tell people about how good God is and how he can help people who have a relationship with him without people saying we are cramming our beliefs down their throat. Christians just want to help. I think some go overboard but if a person has a rough time in their life I try to tell them to pray and trust God. Nowadays, you can't even go public with your beliefs yet it is ok for people to say that they don't believe in God. This is why I am scared to try to convince people to come to God. Folks get so upset.
Think of it this way. We're both kids who rides our bikes with training wheels. A year passes; and I learn to ride my bike without those wheels (which now gets in my way and slows me down). You still need your wheels (you actually don't, but fear keeps you stuck). Whenever you see me, you try to give me the "good news" about training-wheels. This is EXACTLY how the ex-christian sees people who are still christians.
For what it's worth, very few kids go back to their training wheels after they've learned how to ride without them (no matter how many times they fall).
It may not be true of "ALL of us", but when I was raised in the Methodist church, there were no discussions. The minister (a very fine minister, Reverent Eugene Durham) preached to/at us. When I was a Catholic, the priest preached his homilies and told us what we could and couldn't do.
I'm glad -- at least preliminarily -- to hear that "Jesus followers" are different. I've never met one.
In the Episcopal church, discussion is not only encouraged, there is a program of theological study designed for lay people that fosters deep discussion with the goal of deepening one's spirituality. There are no "right" answers. It is not a "right belief" tradition, but rather a focus on community.
It is not a church without convictions. We are told that Christ did not exclude anyone from the love of God and that neither must we. There's no pressure on or threat to anyone to accept that. People who don't accept inclusion tend to draw away of their own accord.
Think of it this way. We're both kids who rides our bikes with training wheels. A year passes; and I learn to ride my bike without those wheels (which now gets in my way and slows me down). You still need your wheels (you actually don't, but fear keeps you stuck). Whenever you see me, you try to give me the "good news" about training-wheels. This is EXACTLY how the ex-christian sees people who are still christians.
For what it's worth, very few kids go back to their training wheels after they've learned how to ride without them (no matter how many times they fall).
Pretty good analogy.
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Why aren't Christians allowed to tell people about the greatness of God without being persecuted?
