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Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but those look like two different defionitions. Is atheism based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion? I think that fits the defionition perfectly.
I find it ironic that you criticize my logical understanding when you just steped into a logical fallacy yourself, the fallacy of stereotyping/pre-judging. So because I believe in God all of the sudden I am incapable of understanding logic? You are jumiping to a conclusion based on very little evidence. You may want to be more careful when claiming to know about a subject before you shoot yourself in the foot again. So please, you claimed to have proof so try me. By the way, I never said atheism is a religion.
There are illogical atheists too. It has nothing to do with believing in a creator. I make the same statement to anybody who wants to have a debate based on logic. I made an observation that most theists who call their arguments logical haven't studied logical reasoning themselves. I will just throw one obstacle out there because I have no clue what response it'll get, but if it's a refusal to accept the truth in the logic, I will stop right there knowing I was right that you would try to dispute the validity of it.
I'm not even going to get into to it that much because I'm lazy. Of course, I will address infinite regression, because no theist has ever come up with a good answer to refute it. If everything in existence has a creator, you can not exclude your God. That is speaking absolutely with an exception. If God is not subjected to the law of needing creation, the universe also isn't subjected to it. I suppose you could say that God is always there, but then you'd have to bring in the first law of thermodynamics, which states that matter and energy can not be created nor destroyed. They have no beginning and no end. Every physical thing that exists is made of energy and matter (including us and the universe). What place does that leave for creation if the contents of our universe have always existed in some form or another? A creator isn't necessary. If you can apply the creation law to the universe, you'd have to apply it to God as well. Then you'd have to apply it to his creator and his creator. It's basically like the "Turtles All the Way Down" thing. An infinite number of creators making creations. Sure, I suppose that's possible, but with the evidence we have (first law of thermodynamics), such a thing isn't even necessary for our existence.
do you think the athiests have any new positions or insights (oh yeh, you don't believe in insight). How about guessing by way of trusting in scientific outcomes...hows that.
Same tired old argument, man has the answers to the questions of the universe, because some science points to it.
There is no exact science when it comes to the earths or mans origins, there never will be a knowing without learning from the one that did it all. How can there be?
So atheists will continue to spin in circles hoping to prove that they have no Father in a expansive state.
The earth will end up in near destruction due to Atheists accusing believers of causing the whole mess, taking freedom from the masses and outlawing the worship of God.
Then God Almighty will step in to save what He created.
All Atheists and religions should remember this, so they will know why their knees are bent while they pour out their hearts begging for forgiveness.
godspeed,
freedom
What you don't seem to get is that I don't try to convert people, to try and bring people to my way of thinking. In fact I have said over and over again that I would NOT want people to substitute my thinking for their own. I repeatedly tell people to investigate don't take anyones word for it. I have said that where I am now, is a result of the path I have walked in life, it might not be the right choice for anyone else but I feel its right for me.
Thats a HUGE difference to the messages you put out there. One has to wonder if you can even have a conversation without saying the same old cliche's.
I have never tried to prove there is no god. In fact I have said over and over again that there might very well be a higher power, I just haven't seen any evidence, if the time comes that I do, then of course I would change what I believe. You don't see that your so caught up in spewing the same rhetoric you don't see what anyone is saying.
AND how is it that christians are going to cause the end of the world. I don't pretend to speak for all atheists but I fail to see how you guys are that powerful. We have abused this planet of course but I don't think christians can destroy out. Your reasoning is really out there and really doesn't describe any atheists I have heard of, but then again it has to be because your too busy getting your next speech ready, you don't actually listen to what one of us says. AND before you resort to another ditto, I have read what you had to say, I have heard it all before.
What you don't seem to get is that I don't try to convert people, to try and bring people to my way of thinking. In fact I have said over and over again that I would NOT want people to substitute my thinking for their own. I repeatedly tell people to investigate don't take anyones word for it. I have said that where I am now, is a result of the path I have walked in life, it might not be the right choice for anyone else but I feel its right for me.
What makes you think that i am trying to convert? I am giving my pov, thats all, what would i convert them to?
Quote:
Thats a HUGE difference to the messages you put out there. One has to wonder if you can even have a conversation without saying the same old cliche's.
Most threads do not allow a conversation like the one we are having now, it becomes labeled as off topic or personal.
Quote:
I have never tried to prove there is no god. In fact I have said over and over again that there might very well be a higher power, I just haven't seen any evidence, if the time comes that I do, then of course I would change what I believe. You don't see that your so caught up in spewing the same rhetoric you don't see what anyone is saying.
Well you are wise to not engage in impossibilities. That is one of the few there are.
My rhetoric? Can you give me an example?
Quote:
AND how is it that christians are going to cause the end of the world. I don't pretend to speak for all atheists but I fail to see how you guys are that powerful. We have abused this planet of course but I don't think christians can destroy out. Your reasoning is really out there and really doesn't describe any atheists I have heard of, but then again it has to be because your too busy getting your next speech ready, you don't actually listen to what one of us says. AND before you resort to another ditto, I have read what you had to say, I have heard it all before.
I didn't say Christians were going to cause the end of the world, i said believers would be blamed, not all believers call themselves Christians. There are many other beliefs in the world.
My reasoning is out there, yet it is the same old cliche' hmmmm. i'm trying to follow you... really i am... i don't wish to be mis understood, nor boxed up.
I don't think you have heard it all before, i don't think you realize that there are infinite possibilities that you have not investigated. I think you believe that when you die is when you will have your answers, and i'm here to tell you that death is avoidable. Did you hear that before?
Birth control would be made more widely available.
AND Fridays would be clothing optional day.
What do you think would be different if Atheists ruled the world?
No Churches
No Tax Exempt business claiming to be working for the "Lord"
Less Traffic on Sunday mornings
No grumpy church people in kinkos at the last minute sunday mornings. "YES"
Religion and Politics would be separate like it should be
i'll finish later, have a bad storm brewing. Don't want my computer shocked.
There are illogical atheists too. It has nothing to do with believing in a creator. I make the same statement to anybody who wants to have a debate based on logic. I made an observation that most theists who call their arguments logical haven't studied logical reasoning themselves. I will just throw one obstacle out there because I have no clue what response it'll get, but if it's a refusal to accept the truth in the logic, I will stop right there knowing I was right that you would try to dispute the validity of it.
I'm not even going to get into to it that much because I'm lazy. Of course, I will address infinite regression, because no theist has ever come up with a good answer to refute it. If everything in existence has a creator, you can not exclude your God. That is speaking absolutely with an exception. If God is not subjected to the law of needing creation, the universe also isn't subjected to it. I suppose you could say that God is always there, but then you'd have to bring in the first law of thermodynamics, which states that matter and energy can not be created nor destroyed. They have no beginning and no end. Every physical thing that exists is made of energy and matter (including us and the universe). What place does that leave for creation if the contents of our universe have always existed in some form or another? A creator isn't necessary. If you can apply the creation law to the universe, you'd have to apply it to God as well. Then you'd have to apply it to his creator and his creator. It's basically like the "Turtles All the Way Down" thing. An infinite number of creators making creations. Sure, I suppose that's possible, but with the evidence we have (first law of thermodynamics), such a thing isn't even necessary for our existence.
The point was that you did group me in with other people based on their responses, without knowing mine, hence the fallacy. I will give you an excuse for being lazy though, we have that in common
Well from what I can tell, there is nothing wrong with your argument logically. It is a good question, and one that I have asked myeslf more times than you can imagine. I only have one response and you've probably heard it before but oh well. For the sake of argument, assume that God is real... As the all-powerful God and creator of logic itself, he is not necessarily bound by it's rules or our understanding.
. For the sake of argument, assume that God is real... As the all-powerful God and creator of logic itself, he is not necessarily bound by it's rules or our understanding.
For the sake of argument, assume that there is no god. Hey, problem solved!
The atheists I have noticed characterize the God of the Christians of which they do not believe in. I think they tried religion of some sort and it did not work out. I do not think most of them have a true understanding of what all the different religious groups really believe. But neither do I or any other person.
These books are fine examples of Atheist using Christianity God and Religion to dis-prove gods exsistence.
But there would also be columbines at every school, not only gay marriage but dog marriage (that is dog and human), moral degredation of every sort. Everything would be tolerated but a Christian. Maybe it would be like the Stalin, Hitler eras.
I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has been asked and answered, please forgive me, but why would you say this? What possible evidence do you have that would suggest this is true?
I have never met an atheist who would sanction a marriage between a dog and a human or the Columbine shootings. Can you honestly say that you have?
What do you mean "Everything would be tolerated but a Christian?"
I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has been asked and answered, please forgive me, but why would you say this? What possible evidence do you have that would suggest this is true?
I have never met an atheist who would sanction a marriage between a dog and a human or the Columbine shootings. Can you honestly say that you have?
What do you mean "Everything would be tolerated but a Christian?"
Blessings,
pnc
Because apparently atheists have nothing to live for, or some mumbo jumbo like that.
My view is, the only thing for an afterlife we have is our legacy. I'd rather die being thought of as a good man, than die being thought of as a douchebag. There is no ability to go kill a dozen people, and then be forgiven and then go to heaven for atheists.
And besides, look at the majority of mobsters and gangsters. The vast majority of them are religious.
Of course there are atheists that commit crimes, but the percent of atheists in prison is lower than the percent of atheists in the country, so that has to stand for something.
Christianity is the largest religion in the world, boasting an overwhelming majority in the western world. It makes sense to argue against the most popular God first.
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