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I have never sought to suggest that others do NOT have their own way of knowing God. That is why whenever I reference my BELIEFS I usually end with YMMV. My entire purpose here is to present and defend my understanding of the significance of Christ WITHOUT any resort to magical thinking or irrational claims about reality not supportable by extant science.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
the point in applying your own statements to your own views, is that you can then see where and how and why they are problematic. where they are not rational. where they are not logical. where there is a double standard.
and if you reason yourself out of them "oh its not literal" or "oh its interpretation" or "oh its based on personal experience" "or oh its an archetype or mythos" "or oh those are my religious beliefs" then that same "explanation" or "exception" equally applies to others. do one of two things. either give people the same leeway you give yourself. or apply the same standards you apply to others, including your steady stream of invective pejorative language, to yourself as well.
I do not reason myself out of anything.
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nothing do do with Gaylen. nothing to do with personalities. simply about you and your posts, and applying your own posts and choice of language to your own views.
simply "do unto others" MPD if you need something rooted in both theology and psychology.
Let's get real. You do not see any savagery or barbarity in believing that killing some innocent animal can in some magical way appease God for human failings. You consider my use of those perfectly apt adjectives as "invective pejorative language" because you refuse to acknowledge them. You do the same thing with the savage and barbaric idea that God would order the bashing of babies heads on rocks or the gutting of pregnant women with swords. Any "invective pejorative language" applies to the concepts NOT the people who accept them. Your indefensible misrepresentations of Gaylen's posts is definitely evidence of your propensity to negatively misconstrue those who you disagree with. Your tenacious focus on the posters instead of the issues is counterproductive and annoying. Do not try to close my thread by your antics.
Well, yes. but it is even deeper than that: it is the idea that a "holy book" should be viewed as an authority by the ones who follow any part of it as opposed to "a source in 'the fossil record'" that expresses elements of truth that have been found to be true by other methods.
It is not just believers who have trouble with this, it is scoffers who view any citation of those books as an appeal to authority rather than just the expression of a truth it is meant to be.
I do not reason myself out of anything. Let's get real. You do not see any savagery or barbarity in believing that killing some innocent animal can in some magical way appease God for human failings. You consider my use of those perfectly apt adjectives as "invective pejorative language" because you refuse to acknowledge them. You do the same thing with the savage and barbaric idea that God would order the bashing of babies heads on rocks or the gutting of pregnant women with swords. Any "invective pejorative language" applies to the concepts NOT the people who accept them. Your indefensible misrepresentations of Gaylen's posts is definitely evidence of your propensity to negatively misconstrue those who you disagree with. Your tenacious focus on the posters instead of the issues is counterproductive and annoying. Do not try to close my thread by your antics.
let's answer you as you would.
Why MPD! you don't understand! goodness gracious, the advanced intellect can easily see that those are mythos. not literal. they are metaphor. archetype. symbolic. why if someone takes the bible literally and is a "bible literalist" then that is overly simplistic, and overly simplistic shows a lack of critical thinking skills. are you saying you are a bible literalist MPD? this discussion is on a higher level than that. Arach made a good point on this that the problem is not with the holy book, it is when people take the holy book literally. you wouldn't do that now would you MPD?
nothing to do with Gaylen. stop bringing in personalities. nothing to do with disagreeing. We are discussing principles and views that you yourself clearly put forth in your own posts. What could be more agreeable and harmonious and illuminating than MPD in conversation with MPD?!
again, just answering you as you answer others.
this is fun!
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-04-2018 at 02:06 PM..
let's answer you as you would.
Why MPD! you don't understand! goodness gracious, the advanced intellect can easily see that those are mythos. not literal. they are metaphor. archetype. symbolic. why if someone takes the bible literally and is a "bible literalist" then that is overly simplistic, and overly simplistic shows a lack of critical thinking skills. are you saying you are a bible literalist MPD?
nothing to do with Gaylen. stop bringing in personalities. We are discussing principles and views that you yourself clearly put forth in your own posts.
again, just answering you as you answer others.
this is fun!
What on earth would be the non-savage, non-barbaric symbolism of bashing babies'heads on rocks or gutting pregnant women with swords???? My advanced intellect strains at seeing any Godly import. If it is all metaphorical and symbolic why did our ancestors who adhered to those beliefs develop stringent and detailed procedures for very unmetaphorically slaughtering the innocent animals for their ceremonies and feasts?
What on earth would be the non-savage, non-barbaric symbolism of bashing babies'heads on rocks or gutting pregnant women with swords???? My advanced intellect strains at seeing any Godly import. If it is all metaphorical and symbolic why did our ancestors who adhered to those beliefs develop stringent and detailed procedures for very unmetaphorically slaughtering the innocent animals for their ceremonies and feasts?
those are different threads, different topics. How about start a thread on those particular inquiries and specific interests you have and see what responses you get? Researching a topic in depth is part and parcel of critical thinking so your desire for increased understanding is laudable.
however this thread is focused on the JC baseball fable, remember?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-04-2018 at 02:32 PM..
What on earth would be the non-savage, non-barbaric symbolism of bashing babies'heads on rocks or gutting pregnant women with swords???? My advanced intellect strains at seeing any Godly import. If it is all metaphorical and symbolic why did our ancestors who adhered to those beliefs develop stringent and detailed procedures for very unmetaphorically slaughtering the innocent animals for their ceremonies and feasts?
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
those are different threads, different topics. How about start a thread on those particular inquiries and specific interests you have and see what responses you get?
this thread is focused on the JC baseball fable, though, remember?
YOU brought up the symbolic, metaphorical possibility. I assumed you had a reason for doing so and I wanted to be enlightened by you. The "designated hitter" explanation of Christ's role is far superior to the "human blood sacrifice to magically appease God" explanation IMO.
What on earth would be the non-savage, non-barbaric symbolism of bashing babies'heads on rocks or gutting pregnant women with swords???? My advanced intellect strains at seeing any Godly import. If it is all metaphorical and symbolic why did our ancestors who adhered to those beliefs develop stringent and detailed procedures for very unmetaphorically slaughtering the innocent animals for their ceremonies and feasts?
you have to be careful with barbaric mystic. we in the states are 'sheltered, even isolated, from the natural world. Its why we have so much pts, but that's another story. Its why suburban liberals don't understand just how wrong they are in dealing with inner city insanity.
Life back then, in fact just living, was a slaughter house. preparing food, going to the bathroom, giving birth, and even just the monthly menstrual cycle fluids were very messy. Not to mention dying slowly from infection or watching ones wife dying pushing a breech baby out for three days.
They had to kill every single person in a village and take there stuff and ensure no future retaliation. that was war back then. Killing was life back then. so the god they portrayed followed the laws of the natural world. heck even you preach that.
The detailed procedures were probably half symbolism of thanks to nature and 1/2 proven methods of eating without getting sick.
YOU brought up the symbolic, metaphorical possibility. I assumed you had a reason for doing so and I wanted to be enlightened by you. The "designated hitter" explanation of Christ's role is far superior to the "human blood sacrifice to magically appease God" explanation IMO.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
its not a competition.
it's a walk with God, a path to God.'s not about being superior.
rather the opposite, we are asked to be humble.
Psalms 37:11
"But the humble shall inherit the land, and they shall delight in much peace."
the corollary is there is no peace with supremacy.
Being humble does NOT mean accepting irrational and magical explanations when a logical and reasonable one is available. That we were "missing the mark" and NOT achieving what God desired is indisputable. It makes complete sense that our Savior would step up to achieve what we could not. No need for appeasement or punishment, just accomplishment. He was our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam to win the game for us. Our "strikeouts" no longer matter. God is no longer counting them.
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My advanced intellect strains at seeing any Godly import. If it is all metaphorical and symbolic why did our ancestors who adhered to those beliefs develop stringent and detailed procedures for very unmetaphorically slaughtering the innocent animals for their ceremonies and feasts?