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Because you have declared it to be so. Because your beliefs are the inerrant beliefs. Because you have declared them to be so.
Because you have declared it to be so. Because your beliefs are the inerrant beliefs. Because you have declared them to be so.
Jeremiah 1:
[5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Pss 139:
[13] For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
[16] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Thank you for responding. This does however bring up an interesting side issue. God is telling Jeremiah, at least according to Jeremiah, that God designated him to be a prophet before Jeremiah was ever even formed in his mother's belly. Because God is omnipotent and omniscient. God made Adam and Eve from scratch, knowing exactly all of the actions of their lives from before their creation, and got exactly the result He expected to get. Because He is God and no other outcome but the one He intended was possible. The same is true for all of his creations, including Satan and the serpent. God brought Adam and Eve and the serpent together in the garden knowing exactly what would occur and when. And then God condemned Adam and Eve and the serpent and their progeny in perpetuity, for this "original sin" they they were created to commit. Believers claim that Adam and Eve and the serpent had complete free will, and have therefore only themselves to blame for for doing EXACTLY as they we created by God in the beginning to do. I could ask you, does this REALLY sounds like a fair and just God to you?
But I would rather ask you this. Where has God ever explicitly promised anyone free will?
I've never believed that the Bible says we have libertarian free will. That's a heresy called Pelagianism to suggest that we can freely choose God or sin. Fact is, we are all slaves to a sinful nature until God regenerates us and we are born again.
You seem to think that makes God bad? So what? If you believe you're the product of natural events, and your brain is just a peace of meat with random chemicals flowing through it, how is anything moral, immoral, good or bad?
Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me if the Bible is inerrant or not; what matters is the intellectual honesty of admitting that error is possible. Humans are...well, human, and no human is ever 'absolutely perfect'.
Isn't that what the Bible teaches, after all? That humans are sinful creatures?
The brain and biology are more complex than meat and chemicals but I would say it's a simple desire to want to be a good person and a benefit to society. Humans tend to be social animals.
Fair question. You seem to be leaving the possibility open that god is bad. If that is in fact so, is he deserving of worship? If you worship god, wouldn't that make you complicit in the bad, and by extension make you bad yourself?
Quote:
If you believe you're the product of natural events, and your brain is just a peace of meat with random chemicals flowing through it, how is anything moral, immoral, good or bad?
Softball question. There are several different ways of establishing secular morality. The easiest is to say that what is good for me is moral. As we are social creatures, that extends morality beyond just me, and includes other human beings. This is not simply a matter of altruism, but of enlightened self interest. After all, if I go through life as a raping, thieving, killing creature, other people will soon lock me up, which isn't good for me in the long run.
There is also the matter of our brains. The chemicals in our brains aren't repandom, they exhibit order. One aspect of that order is that we have been wired to care about others. Therefore what is good for me and others is moral.
No need for god.
Last edited by fishbrains; 09-01-2017 at 04:36 PM..
Reason: ETA: What Jumbo said.
I've never believed that the Bible says we have libertarian free will. That's a heresy called Pelagianism to suggest that we can freely choose God or sin. Fact is, we are all slaves to a sinful nature until God regenerates us and we are born again.
You seem to think that makes God bad? So what? If you believe you're the product of natural events, and your brain is just a peace of meat with random chemicals flowing through it, how is anything moral, immoral, good or bad?
Softball question. There are several different ways of establishing secular morality. The easiest is to say that what is good for me is moral. As we are social creatures, that extends morality beyond just me, and includes other human beings. This is not simply a matter of altruism, but of enlightened self interest. After all, if I go through life as a raping, thieving, killing creature, other people will soon lock me up, which isn't good for me in the long run.
There is also the matter of our brains. The chemicals in our brains aren't repandom, they exhibit order. One aspect of that order is that we have been wired to care about others. Therefore what is good for me and others is moral.
No need for god.
And even if one believes in creationism, we can still look at monkeys and the need to be social to thrive in a natural environment. They seem like pretty good little creatures, like to play, learn, communicate and procreate and I have yet to see one read the bible.
And even if one believes in creationism, we can still look at monkeys and the need to be social to thrive in a natural environment. They seem like pretty good little creatures, like to play, learn, communicate and procreate and I have yet to see one read the bible.
have you seen any monkeys reading Scientific American?
Is your aspiration as a human, your role model for inspiration, being all that you can be, to live as a monkey?
that is your goal in life and the height of fulfillment for you, measuring the heights of your achievement against a monkey?
Moderator cut: delete
Tell you what Jumbo, how about you start since its your thread topic.
Tell us Jumbo, what dogma do you believe in?
You appear to be uptight about the idea that your beliefs are centered in dogma. Well, they are. It's why you can completely ignore reality, reason and common sense concerning your religion. It is completely fair for someone to point this out.
have you seen any monkeys reading Scientific American?
Is your aspiration as a human, your role model for inspiration, being all that you can be, to live as a monkey?
that is your goal in life and the height of fulfillment for you, measuring the heights of your achievement against a monkey?
alrighty then. may you one day achieve just that.
The monkeys were obviously an example of social interaction, chosen specifically because they aren't human.
You are a clever person, yet you write as if you missed that very obvious point. I have a hard time believing you didn't understand. Are you so desperate to hate atheists that you willfully misconstrue simple things like this? Does your purposeful ignorance do any credit to your religion?
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