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Your other half away visiting somewhere, cause if she reads this your going to have some knots on your head.....
I'll be gone for the next 12 days and like brother Goodpasture I'll be traveling east for family business and a few obligations that have to be taken care of, I should be back after November 7 and will see y'all then.
I'm troubled by some of the recent posts about being yourself and not trying to borrow someone else's culture. That is the ideal, but it's easier said than done for many people.
My ancestors are mostly Deutsch and Celts, but they abandoned their own traditions centuries ago and adopted Roman civilization and a Romanized Semitic religion. Then they sailed across the ocean to America, and whatever sense of tradition they had left was hopelessly jumbled in a new world with many unfamiliar neighbors. Personally, I know nothing about my ancestors prior to my great-grandparents - not where they lived, what they believed, how they made a living or how they felt about it.
If you have a long memory, you might recall that my first post in this circle was about the Sacred Fire community of which I am a part. This community is rooted in the traditions of the Huichol people of Mexico. This is with the permission and blessing of the Huichol. They could see that many people were in a situation like mine - rootless, without a way to feel a connection to the earth or to their ancestors. So they offered their own tradition to help those who needed one. We are grateful for their help, but we are under no illusions that we are Huichol now. I hope no one in the Sacred Fire community would ever behave like that "Cherokee" described above.
When the time comes, I hope to have a stronger sense of roots and tradition to offer my grandson than my grandfathers did.
I'm troubled by some of the recent posts about being yourself and not trying to borrow someone else's culture. That is the ideal, but it's easier said than done for many people.
My ancestors are mostly Deutsch and Celts, but they abandoned their own traditions centuries ago and adopted Roman civilization and a Romanized Semitic religion. Then they sailed across the ocean to America, and whatever sense of tradition they had left was hopelessly jumbled in a new world with many unfamiliar neighbors. Personally, I know nothing about my ancestors prior to my great-grandparents - not where they lived, what they believed, how they made a living or how they felt about it.
If you have a long memory, you might recall that my first post in this circle was about the Sacred Fire community of which I am a part. This community is rooted in the traditions of the Huichol people of Mexico. This is with the permission and blessing of the Huichol. They could see that many people were in a situation like mine - rootless, without a way to feel a connection to the earth or to their ancestors. So they offered their own tradition to help those who needed one. We are grateful for their help, but we are under no illusions that we are Huichol now. I hope no one in the Sacred Fire community would ever behave like that "Cherokee" described above.
When the time comes, I hope to have a stronger sense of roots and tradition to offer my grandson than my grandfathers did.
I'm confused here. What roots do you hope to offer your grandson? The roots from someone else's culture? If its not your ethnic culture you have no roots in it. If you are Deutsch & Celtic why not get involved in learning about those cultures? There are plenty of Celtic groups for instance in nearly every major city in the US. Learning about another culture is one thing, but trying to claim it as your own is another. There unfortunately are a lot of non-Indians that are being exploited for money and power by other non-Indians who claim to be NDN by selling made up teachings & ceremonies. A number of them are full blown cults where there's one fat cat getting rich from pulling the wool over other's eyes who think they can become an NDN if they pay enough money and chant loud enough.
I don't know about the Sacred Fire community, but I do know of one highly popular Cherokee plastic shaman group that has a worldwide following. Their fake Cherokee elders also have criminal records including some for things like molesting children and stealing funds from the REAL Eastern Cherokee Band. You have to understand getting involved in a group like this makes one look like a fool. In all due respect why not learn about your own ethnic culture and leave NDN culture to real NDN's?
I find it interesting sometimes how certain cultures have their sense of humors, we Native Americans have a sense a humor that we understand and those who are not native American don't understand it and think were being hard on one another when in actuality it's a bit of respect, I also have an Irish side of me which also has an unusual sense of humor, I'm reminded of one of my Irish friends who asked me if I knew what Irish diplomacy was, not knowing, he proceeded to tell me, That Irish diplomacy was the ability to be able to tell somebody to go to hell and them looking forward to the trip....... now that's Irish humor...
LOL. We have something similar..."Dutch praise" is criticism. A "Dutch nightingale" is a frog, and "Dutch courage" is what you get when you are drunk.
There is a Dutch joke about our stubbornness, and that is "Why do the Dutch wear wooden shoes? To keep the woodpeckers off their heads."
I'm troubled by some of the recent posts about being yourself and not trying to borrow someone else's culture. That is the ideal, but it's easier said than done for many people.
My ancestors are mostly Deutsch and Celts, but they abandoned their own traditions centuries ago and adopted Roman civilization and a Romanized Semitic religion. Then they sailed across the ocean to America, and whatever sense of tradition they had left was hopelessly jumbled in a new world with many unfamiliar neighbors. Personally, I know nothing about my ancestors prior to my great-grandparents - not where they lived, what they believed, how they made a living or how they felt about it.
If you have a long memory, you might recall that my first post in this circle was about the Sacred Fire community of which I am a part. This community is rooted in the traditions of the Huichol people of Mexico. This is with the permission and blessing of the Huichol. They could see that many people were in a situation like mine - rootless, without a way to feel a connection to the earth or to their ancestors. So they offered their own tradition to help those who needed one. We are grateful for their help, but we are under no illusions that we are Huichol now. I hope no one in the Sacred Fire community would ever behave like that "Cherokee" described above.
When the time comes, I hope to have a stronger sense of roots and tradition to offer my grandson than my grandfathers did.
why dont you investigate and research where you come from? you can learn alot from research, you say your celtic there is so much on them, take a trip to where your ancestors are from. dont steal anothers culture or traditions they are not yours to pass down.
Rob Allen, I see nothing wrong with being a part of a community which has welcomed you. If you are there with their blessing and not under false colors and this feels right to you, then it may very well be right for you. Knowledge which is given freely is not stolen. I feel that keeping an open mind and learning about as many cultures as possible is important, as long as it is done with respect.
Rob Allen, I see nothing wrong with being a part of a community which has welcomed you. If you are there with their blessing and not under false colors and this feels right to you, then it may very well be right for you. Knowledge which is given freely is not stolen. I feel that keeping an open mind and learning about as many cultures as possible is important, as long as it is done with respect.
I consulted the Fire Keeper of my local circle about this, and he has given his permission for me to post his reply. Here it is:
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It's an interesting and difficult question. One thing that I'd like to point out, to begin with, is that the Sacred Fire Community is not rooted in Huichol tradition--rather, with permission of the Huichol, we use their offerings as a way of creating a minimal ritual space that contains the energy and provides protection for the people gathered around the fire, Most significantly, it provides a way to connect with the livingness of the world, made present in the gathered community, in the dance of the firelight and with the living beings--the wind, the trees, the grass and flowers, the birds and insects, coyotes, dogs, deer, even the neighbors who try to ignore us as we talk long into the night. The offerings open a doorway to relationship with all of it and that's the basic purpose of the SFC, to open that doorway, to create community. The immediate goal is for us to recognize our connection to each other and to that livingness--and our utter dependence on each other and everything around us.
But in no way are we trying to be Huichol or take on the Huichol way of being. Now there are some of us--I am one--who have been called to Huichol traditional healing. This is something different than the work of the SFC and what's behind that is much too complex and difficult to explain in this format. And, because I sit as Fire Keeper, our fire is probably more colored by the Huichol aspects of who I am and how I see the world than most.
Now, the question arises: Why don't we use the Lakota offerings or the offerings of the Multnomah, the Ohlone, the Chumash or the Ute--offerings that are more particular to the lands that we live in? The basic issue is that those people have been crushed and broken and are just beginning to reclaim their ancestral traditions. And since that crushing came at the hands of European people, it is completely understandable that they would see Euro-Americans as people who are trying to steal even their spirituality (as if that could be stolen). And so permission to use those offerings has not been given. And, while a few traditional people have reached out to Euro-Americans, there is widespread distrust and anger. And Euro-Americans, as a whole, still live with deep prejudices against Indian people--partly due to the unspoken guilt of the legacy of our relationship. And, while lip-service might be given to Native people and traditions, as a whole, we still want to ignore the wisdom of traditions and continue consuming as much as we can.
What's also true is that we, the people of Europe, were crushed and broken in an even more devastating way so that there are no people (other than the Sami of the far north) who have been able to maintain their ancestral traditions in an unbroken lineage. What we have is very fragmented and mostly unreliable. And, more importantly, most Euro-Americans are of such mixed heritage that it would be very difficult to determine what our blood traditions are. And, finally, we no longer live in the lands that our blood traditions come from.
The simple fact is that we are now born of these lands, of this soil and wind and water.
So the Huichol, who were driven from most of their ancestral lands in Western Mexico and had to take refuge in the mountains of the Sierra Madre which were also their homelands, have been able to maintain an unbroken lineage. And, while they too are rightly suspicious of European people, they also have a deep connection to Grandfather Fire--who is present in both masculine and feminine aspects in virtually all traditions. So, when Grandfather Fire sent a few emissaries of Euro-American ancestry to seek their help, they recognized the signature of Grandfather Fire from the stories that the emissaries told and knew that they needed to give that help to these strange people from the North who had lost their capacity to connect with the livingness of the world. And so they granted permission for the use of their offerings.
But the purpose, again, is to create connection with each other and the livingness of the world around us, to help us slow down, to listen to each other and the wind, to start hearing the voices of our hearts as we sit together around the fire. Eventually--and it's probably going to take a long time, probably several generations--as we slow down and become stable parts of the lands that we live in, the stories of the land will begin to emerge again in our dreams, in our experience of the land, of the wind, of the falling waters, of the plants and animals that feed and shelter us, and of the people with whom we live in community.
As for me, I haven't experienced much hostility from Native people. But I'm not one who would insist on my way as the only or even the best way. I recognize the disadvantage that I have in not being raised in the village, not having a grandfather to teach me how things are done. I was called to serve as a healer in the Huichol tradition when I have absolutely no Huichol genetic ancestry--and also had no knowledge of traditional shamanic healing or any recognizable desire to engage in such a difficult and dangerous path. So, while I'm not ashamed of my ignorance, recognizing that the Gods must know better than I who I am and what I am to do, I also don't wear that ignorance as a badge of honor and insist that everyone honor and endure my ignorance.
At the same time, I am who I am. I've walked the path and made my offerings and worked to open myself to the singing world. I've received initiation in the traditional way and I work to serve my people, to bring healing and good counsel. I'm not afraid to tell people about my work, or to do my work. In a way, my ignorance, the fact that I haven't had anyone say, "Do it this way, Grandson," means that I have to listen very carefully to the world around me, that I have to be able to drop my ego-mind--which likes to pretend that it knows something--and listen to my heart which is in a much deeper connection with the world.
But I would never go to a Native Elder and say anything like, "You're doing this wrong," or "I know better than you." I would watch and listen in respect. In fact, I would probably not talk about my path and work unless I was asked. And if people are skeptical, well, there's nothing I can do about that. Hopefully, those who are open in their hearts, who have not been too injured to hear the voice of Divine, would recognize the nature of my heart and the legitimacy of my work.
Jonathan Merritt
Fire Keeper
Portland Hamlet
Huichol Marakame
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Rob Allen, I see nothing wrong with being a part of a community which has welcomed you. If you are there with their blessing and not under false colors and this feels right to you, then it may very well be right for you. Knowledge which is given freely is not stolen. I feel that keeping an open mind and learning about as many cultures as possible is important, as long as it is done with respect.
Good morning brothers and sisters..I come in to sit and renew myself and feel the peace, love and harmony around this circle..
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