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What I've observed here - not exclusively here, but quite clearly here - is:
1. How a watered-down Christianity that eviscerates (guts) the essentials of orthodox Christianity can make a poster popular even with atheists - precisely because it eviscerates orthodox Christianity and posits a god even an atheist can love.
2. How this watered-down Christianity is actually a far greater threat to orthodox Christianity than atheism or any other religion - precisely because it is clothed in the garb of Christianity.
3. The almost visceral hatred of orthodox Christianity and orthodox Christians on the part of participants across the entire spectrum from watered-down Christianity to atheism - precisely because orthodox Christianity challenges the worldly morals and narcissistic preferences of these folks.
4. The extent to which atheists are intellectually incapable of actually articulating and defending their positions and must resort to juvenile ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies; also the extent to which atheists are obsessed with Christianity, to a degree that I would find positively weird if a Christian were similarly obsessed with atheism.
5. The bottom line is that, through participation here and elsewhere, I've become ever-more-convinced that we live in times of unparalleled activity and deception by the forces of supernatural evil - and that, precisely as the Bible predicts, many decent and well-meaning people are being led far astray while deluding themselves that they have freed themselves from the tyranny of orthodox Christianity.
What I've observed here - not exclusively here, but quite clearly here - is:
1. How a watered-down Christianity that eviscerates (guts) the essentials of orthodox Christianity can make a poster popular even with atheists - precisely because it eviscerates orthodox Christianity and posits a god even an atheist can love.
2. How this watered-down Christianity is actually a far greater threat to orthodox Christianity than atheism or any other religion - precisely because it is clothed in the garb of Christianity.
3. The almost visceral hatred of orthodox Christianity and orthodox Christians on the part of participants across the entire spectrum from watered-down Christianity to atheism - precisely because orthodox Christianity challenges the worldly morals and narcissistic preferences of these folks.
4. The extent to which atheists are intellectually incapable of actually articulating and defending their positions and must resort to juvenile ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies; also the extent to which atheists are obsessed with Christianity, to a degree that I would find positively weird if a Christian were similarly obsessed with atheism.
5. The bottom line is that, through participation here and elsewhere, I've become ever-more-convinced that we live in times of unparalleled activity and deception by the forces of supernatural evil - and that, precisely as the Bible predicts, many decent and well-meaning people are being led far astray while deluding themselves that they have freed themselves from the tyranny of orthodox Christianity.
I just love your sense of humor!
Based on this post of yours, it seems as if you are upset that everybody doesn't share your reverence for "orthodox christianity". Tough. People either believe orthodox christianity, or they don't. Just because it's "orthodox" doesn't mean it's believable. In fact, I would posit that perhaps orthodox christianity isn't very believable, and considering the wars of orthodox christianity it's not -- for many -- an "attractive" belief system. When you say that "orthodox Christianity challenges the worldly morals and narcissistic preferences of these folks", I would counter that many events in the history of orthodox christianity appear awfully immoral or (at best) amoral.
If orthodox christianity is so hated, maybe there's a good reason.
In #4 above you criticize "atheists are intellectually incapable of actually articulating and defending their positions and must resort to juvenile ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies; also the extent to which atheists are obsessed with Christianity, to a degree that I would find positively weird..." Let's see...would you say that that sentence is mature debate?
I would say good for those who have freed themselves.
What I've observed here - not exclusively here, but quite clearly here - is:
1. How a watered-down Christianity that eviscerates (guts) the essentials of orthodox Christianity can make a poster popular even with atheists - precisely because it eviscerates orthodox Christianity and posits a god even an atheist can love.
2. How this watered-down Christianity is actually a far greater threat to orthodox Christianity than atheism or any other religion - precisely because it is clothed in the garb of Christianity.
3. The almost visceral hatred of orthodox Christianity and orthodox Christians on the part of participants across the entire spectrum from watered-down Christianity to atheism - precisely because orthodox Christianity challenges the worldly morals and narcissistic preferences of these folks.
4. The extent to which atheists are intellectually incapable of actually articulating and defending their positions and must resort to juvenile ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies; also the extent to which atheists are obsessed with Christianity, to a degree that I would find positively weird if a Christian were similarly obsessed with atheism.
5. The bottom line is that, through participation here and elsewhere, I've become ever-more-convinced that we live in times of unparalleled activity and deception by the forces of supernatural evil - and that, precisely as the Bible predicts, many decent and well-meaning people are being led far astray while deluding themselves that they have freed themselves from the tyranny of orthodox Christianity.
lets see,
watered down Christianity meaning that people see that died and rose for our sins just doesn't match observation.
hatred: we don't see that died and rose for our sins is the best we can do, in terms actually describing the universe.
defending our stance: there isn't much to defend when it comes to "died and rose for our sins". For us to even have to discuss that as a real event is kind of embarrassing.
The bottom line is that we need to be very vigilant of people that think that died and rose for our sins is real. They are putting us all in danger.
Yup...I was Atheist my whole adult life & came here that way.
Thought that God was limited to just the Deities and Mythological creatures in ancient writings.
But then Mystic was cool enough (I even offered him money to teach me!) and patient and generous enough (he turned down the monetary offer, flat out)...to bring me to greater understanding and enlightenment. I found out "God" had no such limitations...I will be forever appreciative of his time and effort to give me the info I did not previously have.
As far as my "trying to debunk Separation of Church and State"...that was just my views on the "Founding Fathers", and my ideas about their actual intentions. https://www.city-data.com/forum/19973301-post67.html
Once I had adopted the concepts of Pantheism...of course, I noted that the God I perceive does objectively exist, and is self-substantiating.
As one could figure...the Militant Atheists could not have me touting an irrefutably and unequivocally existing God Entity...so they had to attack it in every way possible. And that continues.
I will admit...I used to have a bit of a "sprinkle sand down their collars" kinda attitude. So, I had some of it comin to me. But...even once I stopped that...they didn't.
The god -claims are all flawed, including yours, and so whether you post here or not, we will continue to refute the god claims whether Bible - based or the one based on the semantic swindle of calling 'Everything' "God".
It is not about getting back at you and never was, though your tactic of capering about and thumbing your nose at atheism on the Forum in lieu of having a proper case to make was a bit annoying. Though no more than the odd Christian trying on Hellthreat or...any one of a grab -bag full of dirty tricks.
Yup...I was Atheist my whole adult life & came here that way.
Thought that God was limited to just the Deities and Mythological creatures in ancient writings.
But then Mystic was cool enough (I even offered him money to teach me!) and patient and generous enough (he turned down the monetary offer, flat out)...to bring me to greater understanding and enlightenment. I found out "God" had no such limitations...I will be forever appreciative of his time and effort to give me the info I did not previously have.
As far as my "trying to debunk Separation of Church and State"...that was just my views on the "Founding Fathers", and my ideas about their actual intentions. https://www.city-data.com/forum/19973301-post67.html
Once I had adopted the concepts of Pantheism...of course, I noted that the God I perceive does objectively exist, and is self-substantiating.
As one could figure...the Militant Atheists could not have me touting an irrefutably and unequivocally existing God Entity...so they had to attack it in every way possible. And that continues.
I will admit...I used to have a bit of a "sprinkle sand down their collars" kinda attitude. So, I had some of it comin to me. But...even once I stopped that...they didn't.
I'm just curious about something Gldn...
I started this thread because I'm curious to learn how others views have evolved, and as such I'm not going to argue with what people write here, even if I disagree with it. That's for other threads.
But I am curious about your evolution into pantheism and I wonder if you would answer something?
I remember having one or two discussions with you on the subject of hell.
As far as I understand, a pantheist god is as much a philosophical idea as it is a religious one. Ie that a pantheist god is synonymous with the universe / reality etc. I'm good with that. It's the type of god that in my mind makes the most sense.
As such I don't see a pantheist god being compatible with many religions and in particular I dont see a pantheist god being compatible with ideas of heaven and hell, since they are religion based.
I wondered if you still believed in the idea of 'hell' or if you had moved on from that?
Refuting Goldie's attacks. But back to topic, hey?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
I'm just curious about something Gldn...
I started this thread because I'm curious to learn how others views have evolved, and as such I'm not going to argue with what people write here, even if I disagree with it. That's for other threads.
But I am curious about your evolution into pantheism and I wonder if you would answer something?
I remember having one or two discussions with you on the subject of hell.
As far as I understand, a pantheist god is as much a philosophical idea as it is a religious one. Ie that a pantheist god is synonymous with the universe / reality etc. I'm good with that. It's the type of god that in my mind makes the most sense.
As such I don't see a pantheist god being compatible with many religions and in particular I dont see a pantheist god being compatible with ideas of heaven and hell, since they are religion based.
I wondered if you still believed in the idea of 'hell' or if you had moved on from that?
Good one. Gldnrule has a chance to explain his views and development of his "Spiritual" (I mean to use that in the all - encompassing sense, not ironically) position (nicely on -topic). I'm also curious as to how his Pantheism shapes. I'm sure for instance that it doesn't include a Hell, though possibly a cosmic eternity of some kind.
I started this thread because I'm curious to learn how others views have evolved, and as such I'm not going to argue with what people write here, even if I disagree with it. That's for other threads.
But I am curious about your evolution into pantheism and I wonder if you would answer something?
I remember having one or two discussions with you on the subject of hell.
As far as I understand, a pantheist god is as much a philosophical idea as it is a religious one. Ie that a pantheist god is synonymous with the universe / reality etc. I'm good with that. It's the type of god that in my mind makes the most sense.
As such I don't see a pantheist god being compatible with many religions and in particular I dont see a pantheist god being compatible with ideas of heaven and hell, since they are religion based.
I wondered if you still believed in the idea of 'hell' or if you had moved on from that?
Happy Thanksgiving Cru...Peace & Love to you and yours!
I don't believe in "Hell"...and have never believed in Hell. I was just jesting.
Check out this archive...it will explain. The last two are our exchange:
What I've observed here - not exclusively here, but quite clearly here - is:
1. How a watered-down Christianity that eviscerates (guts) the essentials of orthodox Christianity can make a poster popular even with atheists - precisely because it eviscerates orthodox Christianity and posits a god even an atheist can love.
No, that is not the reason. Stop inventing excuses and deal with the actual arguments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
2. How this watered-down Christianity is actually a far greater threat to orthodox Christianity than atheism or any other religion - precisely because it is clothed in the garb of Christianity.
Not our problem. Perhaps if you had better evidence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
3. The almost visceral hatred of orthodox Christianity and orthodox Christians on the part of participants across the entire spectrum from watered-down Christianity to atheism - precisely because orthodox Christianity challenges the worldly morals and narcissistic preferences of these folks.
No, there is no visceral hatred, and the fact your religion supports things like slavery is just one of the problems we point out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
4. The extent to which atheists are intellectually incapable of actually articulating and defending their positions and must resort to juvenile ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies;
No, that is the Irkles of this world. Your self loathing would be amusing if it was not a tragedy of projection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
also the extent to which atheists are obsessed with Christianity, to a degree that I would find positively weird if a Christian were similarly obsessed with atheism.
Once again, it is selection bias. Most of us live in countries with a Christian culture and most of us who where religious where once Christians. For an alleged intellectual you appear to not understand this very simple concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
5. The bottom line is that, through participation here and elsewhere, I've become ever-more-convinced that we live in times of unparalleled activity and deception by the forces of supernatural evil - and that, precisely as the Bible predicts, many decent and well-meaning people are being led far astray while deluding themselves that they have freed themselves from the tyranny of orthodox Christianity.
Yes, let us all go back to living in the middle ages.
Based on this post of yours, it seems as if you are upset that everybody doesn't share your reverence for "orthodox christianity". Tough. People either believe orthodox christianity, or they don't. Just because it's "orthodox" doesn't mean it's believable. In fact, I would posit that perhaps orthodox christianity isn't very believable, and considering the wars of orthodox christianity it's not -- for many -- an "attractive" belief system. When you say that "orthodox Christianity challenges the worldly morals and narcissistic preferences of these folks", I would counter that many events in the history of orthodox christianity appear awfully immoral or (at best) amoral.
If orthodox christianity is so hated, maybe there's a good reason.
In #4 above you criticize "atheists are intellectually incapable of actually articulating and defending their positions and must resort to juvenile ad hominem attacks, non-sequiturs and logical fallacies; also the extent to which atheists are obsessed with Christianity, to a degree that I would find positively weird..." Let's see...would you say that that sentence is mature debate?
I would say good for those who have freed themselves.
And freed themselves from the "tyranny of Orthodox Christianity."
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