Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You were referring to "our SAVAGE and barbaric ancestors, especially those hominids who preceded us"? But you didn't say that in your post:
"I have no doubt that prior to Jesus, humanity had no conscience, per se, since I attribute that to the Comforter which we only have BECAUSE of Jesus, IMO. I could be wrong because we have no way to know for sure. I just know that WE DO have the Comforter. I also know it has nothing to do with what we believe or do not believe because I encountered it and I had no clue it existed nor any religious dogma or doctrine that I needed to believe or have faith in to tell me it existed. This is a DISCUSSION forum and the only thing any of us CAN post are our opinions. We can post what we consider authoritative sources. But I have no idea why anyone would have thought any differently. Those who DO think they are somehow posting AUTHORITATIVELY are vain and arrogant fools, IMO."
You may not realize it, but "those hominids who preceded us" were not around immediately before Jesus began his teachings. You may not have liked Rome's moral code, but it certainly had one, and it was fairly well developed. You may not have liked Greece's moral code, but it certainly had one. Various Chinese religions (Confucianism, Taoism, and Legalism) all developed BC. Indian Buddhism developed BC. Ever hear of Moses...BC. Jainism began BC. Socrates and Plato were philosophers BC.
You specifically posted that, "I have no doubt that prior to Jesus, humanity had no conscience".
Feel better now that you have something you actually know enough about to substantively challenge my unsupported and self-described (see the bold) as probably wrong view. You people are something else. You are either wedded to ancient ignorance and superstitions about God or devoted to ragging on them or anything that might remotely be used in support of God. It simply reinforces my utter amazement at the infinite agape love and forgiveness God has toward us perverse creatures.
And your question is extremely loaded in order to quell any further duscussion.
Lets look at your statement
Any knowledge or insights. What could possibly be acceptabe to you
Animalistic ancestors. This is poissioning the well. Are you referring to pre Homoiods or pre Homo sapien or to any ancestor that practiced
Modern consciences. Do you mean modern man as per Homo.sapien, that of during the time of Christ or of 21 Century?
Please elaborate or stuff it. How demanding of you since you only inserted your own personal opinion. You never provided any elaboration to support your claim orher than some silly examples of what happened in the past and totally what happens in the present.
Anthropologists believe based on the fossil evidence, you know the kind you can actually see and everyone can examine. Nealtherahls believed in the otherlife and took care of their sick and elderly. This was about 35000 years before Christ. Im not going to do the homework to find examples from China, Japan, India or the Americas, as I doubt you would accept the findings of anyone whose work does not agree with you.
Do not bother respinding as you seem in such a foul and ornery mood and so full of yourself and intolerance to ideas other than yourown opinions. I wrote this for all other posters and visitors.
I did say, I could be wrong because we do not really know for sure when we got what we would consider a modern conscience. If you know for sure, educate me. I do not think anyone capable of tossing babies ALIVE into fires or bashing someone's babies' heads on rocks or stabbing with swords pregnant women in their bellies is capable of having what I would consider a conscience.
Feel better now that you have something you actually know enough about to substantively challenge my unsupported and self-described (see the bold) as probably wrong view. You people are something else. You are either wedded to ancient ignorance and superstitions about God or devoted to ragging on them or anything that might remotely be used in support of God. It simply reinforces my utter amazement at the infinite agape love and forgiveness God has toward us perverse creatures.
I'm just glad you can admit that you're a "perverse creature".
I did say, I could be wrong because we do not really know for sure when we got what we would consider a modern conscience. If you know for sure, educate me. I do not think anyone capable of tossing babies ALIVE into fires or bashing someone's babies' heads on rocks or stabbing with swords pregnant women in their bellies is capable of having what I would consider a conscience.
All you are doing is saying is that the Bible has become more civilized and less barbaric i the New Testamont. Big deal as an ethnic Jew I fully agree with you that the OT God is portrayed as a monster at times.
But you were speaking about humans not the Bible. These are two different subjects totally. You do realize that the Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans, Austalian and New Zealand aborigines are not in the Bible and you dismiss most of the Bible anyways.I
The Greek philosophers had as modern conscience as the Jesus in the Bible. Not sure about the Jesus you speak with as there is nobevidence he exists. But i dont know for sure so i should be silent andblet your assertion stand unchallenged?
With America having the three strikes law and capital punishment do they have modern conscience? Was the shooting of babies at Wounded Knee less barbaric than what was in the OT?I
I have now provided you with several examples of modern conscience preceeding Christ and many ecamples of barbaric ctions occurring after Christ that you should consider notbup to the modern conscience you claim we got from him. I dont expect you will admit to being wrong.
Seems like your Jesus totally failed to provide humans with modern conscience based on how you claim he did and from your typevofvevidencevto back your claim. And none of this even speaks of what happened in Rwanda or the former Yugoslavis or all the examamples of modern day barbarism that you have chosen to ignore.
All you are doing is saying is that the Bible has become more civilized and less barbaric i the New Testamont. Big deal as an ethnic Jew I fully agree with you that the OT God is portrayed as a monster at times.
But you were speaking about humans not the Bible. These are two different subjects totally. You do realize that the Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans, Austalian and New Zealand aborigines are not in the Bible and you dismiss most of the Bible anyways.I
The Greek philosophers had as modern conscience as the Jesus in the Bible. Not sure about the Jesus you speak with as there is nobevidence he exists. But i dont know for sure so i should be silent andblet your assertion stand unchallenged?
With America having the three strikes law and capital punishment do they have modern conscience? Was the shooting of babies at Wounded Knee less barbaric than what was in the OT?I
I have now provided you with several examples of modern conscience preceeding Christ and many ecamples of barbaric ctions occurring after Christ that you should consider notbup to the modern conscience you claim we got from him. I dont expect you will admit to being wrong.
Seems like your Jesus totally failed to provide humans with modern conscience based on how you claim he did and from your typevofvevidencevto back your claim. And none of this even speaks of what happened in Rwanda or the former Yugoslavis or all the examamples of modern day barbarism that you have chosen to ignore.
Having a conscience is no guarantee it will direct or control our behavior or there would be no need for us to learn to want to do so. I have no clue WHEN our species actually developed what I would call a modern conscience. All I know is that the Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness demonstrated by Jesus for the brutality our ancestors perpetrated on the Cross evokes a collective or communal conscience in spades!
Since it is also the consciousness I encountered in meditation, I know the Comforter is available to evoke it in us within our consciousness. The critical variable affecting the continuation of savagery among us seems to be our willingness to listen to Him. When we are in the states of mind associated with the Holy Spirit, we are compatible with and receptive to the guidance of the Comforter. Vice versa.
Having a conscience is no guarantee it will direct or control our behavior or there would be no need for us to learn to want to do so. I have no clue WHEN our species actually developed what I would call a modern conscience. All I know is that the Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness demonstrated by Jesus for the brutality our ancestors perpetrated on the Cross evokes a collective or communal conscience in spades!
Since it is also the consciousness I encountered in meditation, I know the Comforter is available to evoke it in us within our consciousness. The critical variable affecting the continuation of savagery among us seems to be our willingness to listen to Him. When we are in the states of mind associated with the Holy Spirit, we are compatible with and receptive to the guidance of the Comforter. Vice versa.
There re alsi examples of non barbaric behaviours in the OT but of course those do not matter as you only accept evidence that fits into your belief or opinion be it religion, history or science.
To recap there was barbaric acts before during and after Jesus's death and also non barbaric acts before, during and after his death and from that you concluded our moden conscience began with Jesus. Guess when paired to your Reality is God, your sythesis and how you interact on these forums it makes sense to you.
Maybe you do not have the mental capacit to understand how baseless your claim is? You have not even addressed how your Jesus changed our brains by being one of many whobwere killed on a cross.
In Jesus day, the slaves were just part of the family and supported equally with family members.......... Then there were the Israelites who were slaves in Egypt for three hundred years and more than half that time they were blessed equal to the people of Egypt......... Then Israel were slaves in Babylon for a hundred years when they only had half that time they were blessed as equal to the people and many got married to the people there ....... There are communism where people would be slaves to these ruling class which socialism can lead, and lack of liberties can disappear
If YOU have any knowledge or insights as to when our animalistic ancestors acquired our modern consciences, please elaborate, or stuff it!
the simplest search brings up on the first hit that scientists put modern conscience at 45,000 years ago.
From Smithsonian article 2012, "First of all, there could be little doubt that humans had a conscience 45,000 years ago, which is the conservative date that all archaeologists agree on for our having become culturally modern. Having a conscience and morality go with being culturally modern."
and telling people to "stuff it" does not lend credibility or plausibility to a person's mindset or views.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You people are something else. You are either wedded to ancient ignorance and superstitions about God or devoted to ragging on them or anything that might remotely be used in support of God. It simply reinforces my utter amazement at the infinite agape love and forgiveness God has toward us perverse creatures.
