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As a woman, I would not want to be transported back to barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Denying access to birth control makes that happen, whether it's fanatical religious right-wingers or Catholics. The result is the same.
The OP is getting his wish whether it's labeled Catholic or not. It's happening right now in the U.S.
Why do you think So. America is so poor (I live there)? It's all fanatical Catholics here. And yup, everyone is poor, pregnant and uneducated. No birth control.
Sure, let's go backward in time and give up all our hard-won rights. Why not.
I'd like to think it's not as bad as all that or that it will get that bad, but no doubt there is a concern about religious and/or right-wing influence that tends to encroach on the rights and freedoms of others. Secularism is in part about "keeping people in their lane." When we see a woman's right infringed upon with regard to birth control, we are going backwards. Hard not to blame religion on much if not all the "push" toward that end, and even from women! Difficult to accept for those of us not inclined toward religious fundamentalism. Very difficult, and why should we?
I'd like to think it's not as bad as all that or that it will get that bad, but no doubt there is a concern about religious and/or right-wing influence that tends to encroach on the rights and freedoms of others.
That would be wishful thinking then IMO. It is already as bad as all that, and there is more than a "tendency" to "encroach". That gradualism was arguably true until fairly recently, but not any more. One thing you have to give the far right religious zealots, they know what they want, don't care what anyone thinks, and take no prisoners. The decorous, fastidious people on the other side of this equation just keep getting eaten alive.
The only consolation is that right wing zealotry and authoritarianism is not sustainable and will eventually fail, with the potential for something new and hopefully better to rise up in its place. But who knows how many months, years, or decades of misery and human suffering lie between here and there? And who can say that a near-extinction event like nuclear war might press the "reset" button on the whole shebang in a really big way?
The scenario is that the national government of the USA has peacefully been replaced by a Catholic monarchy. A Catholic King is now ruling the continent from Washington DC.
Under this scenario, revolution or overthrowing the monarchy within your lifetime is not feasible. It's something that you are just going to have to live under for the foreseeable future.
Since I recognize that probably not a single poster here would view this change as a good thing, what I want to know is:
What exactly are you afraid of?
What changes do you envision will take place?
How will your day to day life change?
What will you no longer be allowed to do that you can do now? What will you now be allowed to do that you couldn't before?
How will this affect your life?
Be as specific as you want and use your imagination!
Thanks in advance for any responses, as I don't really want to personally debate anything in this thread (though you are all free to debate, of course); I just want to get your thoughts.
Moderator cut: Political remark removed.
Fun fact, only Protestant people can ascend to the throne in Britain.
Thank you everyone for your contributions thus far.
I will come back and answer some of the questions that have been directed at me, though it probably won't be until at least Tuesday because of the holiday celebrating the founding of our anti-Catholic Masonic Republic
Happy 4th to my fellow Americans, and Viva Cristo Rey!
The catholic cries out in pain even as he strikes you.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-05-2022 at 08:57 AM..
Reason: Politics
That would be wishful thinking then IMO. It is already as bad as all that, and there is more than a "tendency" to "encroach". That gradualism was arguably true until fairly recently, but not any more. One thing you have to give the far right religious zealots, they know what they want, don't care what anyone thinks, and take no prisoners. The decorous, fastidious people on the other side of this equation just keep getting eaten alive.
The only consolation is that right wing zealotry and authoritarianism is not sustainable and will eventually fail, with the potential for something new and hopefully better to rise up in its place. But who knows how many months, years, or decades of misery and human suffering lie between here and there? And who can say that a near-extinction event like nuclear war might press the "reset" button on the whole shebang in a really big way?
Perhaps not as much wishful thinking but a perspective from here in California where we are somewhat immune to some of these hard-right tendencies and encroachments. We're fortunate in California that way, and the differences for people in red vs blue states is becoming more and more important along these lines than ever before. I never factored politics into our decision to live in California or to retire here, but more and more I'm glad the politics is more left-leaning in California than in places like Florida. Not that some left-leaning doesn't have it's issues too, but I'll take them any day of the week over some of what is "eating some people alive" in other more backward states.
That's more the consolation me and my family are glad to appreciate here more generally speaking...
Taking into account the public agendas of the current Pope and the fact that the chief executives of both the US and Canada are actually Catholic, I find it interesting that most of the respondents believe that the installation of a Catholic monarch in the US would mean a return to *their idea of* a Medieval, militant, and crusading Catholicism; complete with Inquisitions and all the accoutrements.
I say *their idea of* because popular history is often biased and tends to exaggerate and/or mischaracterize certain things in order to promote a particular ideology.
i think a legitimate question for you, that is reasonable to have you answer in this thread, because it IS related, asking you "how do you feel about a Muslim monarchy in the USA." After all, Catholics are only 17% of the world population, and Muslims are 24% of the world population.
So answer your own questions you asked in the OP regarding a Muslim monarchy. That IS relevant to the thread. Because then look at your own answers why you "think that's a bad idea" and then you will begin to have a sense of why people feel the way they do, because it is likely the same reasons why having a Catholic monarchy is "a bad idea."
i am not asking for a debate. i am asking for you to engage in discussion. in particular saying your feelings about having a "Muslim monarchy."
Your question makes a faulty presumption, and that is that Truth cannot be known; or more precisely, that the state is not competent to determine what is True Religion. On the contrary, the state can and must make that determination.
As for how I would personally feel about a Muslim monarchy... I really can't say, because that could look like any number of things. It's certainly not ideal, but would it be better or worse than what we currently have? Who could say?
Taking into account the public agendas of the current Pope and the fact that the chief executives of both the US and Canada are actually Catholic, I find it interesting that most of the respondents believe that the installation of a Catholic monarch in the US would mean a return to *their idea of* a Medieval, militant, and crusading Catholicism; complete with Inquisitions and all the accoutrements.
I say *their idea of* because popular history is often biased and tends to exaggerate and/or mischaracterize certain things in order to promote a particular ideology.
Maybe because of the decisions of the current US Supreme Court?
so then, question for the OP (who thus far declines to discuss his own topic):
Given that Catholics are leaving Catholicism, and recent data shows that Catholicism is on the decline.
Question for the OP is: What is your understanding, and please share with readers, the specific reasons so many Catholics are leaving Catholocism. In droves.
This is relevant because that would be Catholics themselves expressing what their disenchantment with Catholicism is. Which would be an insider look from actual subject matter experts with regard to the questions asked in the OP about "why it's a bad idea"
And by all means when you share with readers the list of why Catholics are leaving the fold, please to quote the OP "be specific and use your imagination!"
In the 1960s, much of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church decided to make friends with the world rather than convert the world.
We're 50+ years into this experiment, and we see the rotten fruit that it has borne.
When the Catholic Faith is perceived as unnecessary, or just one option among many others just as legitimate, why bother with it?
In the 1960s, much of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church decided to make friends with the world rather than convert the world.
We're 50+ years into this experiment, and we see the rotten fruit that it has borne.
When the Catholic Faith is perceived as unnecessary, or just one option among many others just as legitimate, why bother with it?
And your answer is ?
Regardless how Catholicism is viewed, religion would lose its dignity if it mucks around with politics and statecraft. They are two different domains that influence our lives deeply. They should stay apart. Theocracy is bad for people, bad for the soul.
Sorry, I had thought I was clear. Many people simply don't see the point. Those with faith tend to go someplace where people actually believe in something (evangelical Protestantism). Those without faith tend to leave Christianity altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
When the Catholic Faith is perceived as unnecessary, or just one option among many others just as legitimate, why bother with it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Regardless how Catholicism is viewed, religion would lose its dignity if it mucks around with politics and statecraft. They are two different domains that influence our lives deeply. They should stay apart.
I don't know what exactly you have in mind when you say "mucks around"; but Christianity is a political religion. We assert the Kingship of Christ over all things, so the politics of a Christian nation will be affected and influenced by the Church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Theocracy is bad for people, bad for the soul.
I don't advocate theocracy, generally speaking. Church and state have their own distinct purpose and function. The bishop is not a king, and the king is not a bishop.
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