Ask an atheist...? (hell, America, church, Muslims)
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NS, the thread is not a waste if anyone learned something from it. I think it was misplaced in this forum, just my opinion. It would have fared a lot better and per your expectation if it was in the A&A for anyone struggling with doubts about their belief. In that case you would have worded it differently as well.
When I first came to this forum I had very little curiosity about atheism. I had seen too much of Bill Maur and his atheist guests. While I enjoy the other guests he manages to get on his show, I wish he would just shut up. My forays into the A&A in my early attempts to understand Atheism was not fruitful. It is a bridge too far.
Learning to live with our differences is the best we can do. We don’t have to understand, showing courtesy is enough.
Good morning Cb! I learned a few things about the regular posters, and posters who posted their stories that I didn't know. The diversity and thoughts and beliefs about different religions is what keeps me coming back. I don't think this is misplaced at all, and obviously CD doesn't think it's inappropriate either. You know there is very little traffic is the A&A and honestly the guys are having conversations that are way over my head.
You know my intentions were good. It seems that the religious and "spiritual" believe this is their forum, and their forum only. Check the TOS. You seem to have a LOT of curiosity about atheism now. I couldn't stand Bill Maher when I was a Christian. Now, to me, he's just a very liberal atheist who I don't necessarily see eye to eye with. After I watched his movie/documentary "Religulous", I had a little less disdain for him.
LOL I wished he would shut up too, now I want to hear more about his thoughts. Probably still won't like him, though. I'm more of a conservative atheist.
Off to pull my hair out and get beat up by a 2 yr. old.
Atheists like to cite the various cultural and political dysfunction that has happened historically through extremist fundamental religions.
Do they also acknowledge the damage atheism has done and can do politically and culturally?
“ When the era of Communist rule began in Russia in 1917, religion was seen as a hindrance to a thriving socialist society. As Karl Marx, coauthor of the The Communist Manifesto, declared, “Communism begins where atheism begins.”
More recently, a 2015 Gallup poll found the number of convinced atheists in China to be 61%, with a further 29% saying that they are not religious compared to just 7% who are religious.[9]
Hi Mountainrose, glad you came back. I can only speak for myself but yes, I realize that horrible things have been done and associated with atheism. I think most of it is just using atheism as a front and excuse to behave atrociously. Just like the religious do. However, you're talking about a handful of evil dictators like Putin. They were and are madmen. But that's just a handful of people who claimed atheism compared to billions of people world, most of whom are religious.
My point is, it's not the end of the world to lose your religion. Actually, it's quite enlightening. I felt a couple of times, as a Christian, that I had a very close guardian angel. I believed that I had been touched on the hand by her when I was around 6 or 7. I carried that throughout my life, just knowing I had it right and Christianity was the only way to the father. I was wrong about all of it. I always had quite an imagination so I had convinced my 7 year old self I had a personal spiritual experience. All I had to do was rationally put that together, as an adult.
I don't think that is right. Quite a large number of religious people think their religion is right and others are wrong. Not just a little wrong, but extremely wrong. There are enough of them to create attitudes like the JWs have, like militant Muslims have, like people who argue the RCC is the only legitimate church, and outspoken fundamentalist Christians that loudly argue the Pope is the anti-Christ. Of course, the other side of that is religious people like Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, who generally internalize their religions and leave everybody to find their own paths. Christians, generally speaking, are the only ones who do much proselytizing. You don't see Buddhists or Jews trying to convert people.
There isn't nearly enough of that spirit of Oneness. Sadly.
I dont know if you are an atheist and speak from that viewpoint. From where I stand, as a seeker of spirituality, i see the connection of seeking the Oneness at the very fundamental level in All forms of faith. Religion is a cloak made by geography and culture. Spirituality and faith is the essence of humanity and it expresses itself in goodness and love.
You on the other hand only see divisions, only see the cloak which once it has served its purpose can be discarded. You don’t see people who reach across religions and adapt to and adopt their teachings and make it their own and find joy and peace in it. As a Hindu I thrill to Sufi music and the Muslim’s call to the Divinity. I find beauty in the Sikh gurdwaras where everyone is welcome to pray and eat with them, their generosity that Sikhism teaches in their very culture. I have lit novena candles to Mary in many cathedrals. And I am not alone, there are many like and more becoming.
Like I said atheists, not that I am saying you are because I dont know if you are or not, and others are fundamentally apart on how we perceive the world and beings. It cannot be bridged. This I have learned from this thread. It is not about good and bad, to be clear. It is a matter of perspective.
Good morning Cb! I learned a few things about the regular posters, and posters who posted their stories that I didn't know. The diversity and thoughts and beliefs about different religions is what keeps me coming back. I don't think this is misplaced at all, and obviously CD doesn't think it's inappropriate either. You know there is very little traffic is the A&A and honestly the guys are having conversations that are way over my head.
You know my intentions were good. It seems that the religious and "spiritual" believe this is their forum, and their forum only. Check the TOS. You seem to have a LOT of curiosity about atheism now. I couldn't stand Bill Maher when I was a Christian. Now, to me, he's just a very liberal atheist who I don't necessarily see eye to eye with. After I watched his movie/documentary "Religulous", I had a little less disdain for him.
LOL I wished he would shut up too, now I want to hear more about his thoughts. Probably still won't like him, though. I'm more of a conservative atheist.
Off to pull my hair out and get beat up by a 2 yr. old.
Getting beat up by a two year old is never a bad thing.
My disdain for Bill Maher is not due his atheism, it is his lack of intellect and his stupid smirk at his own dumb jokes. He hates women and children.
I dont know if you are an atheist and speak from that viewpoint. From where I stand, as a seeker of spirituality, i see the connection of seeking the Oneness at the very fundamental level in All forms of faith. Religion is a cloak made by geography and culture. Spirituality and faith is the essence of humanity and it expresses itself in goodness and love.
You on the other hand only see divisions, only see the cloak which once it has served its purpose can be discarded. You don’t see people who reach across religions and adapt to and adopt their teachings and make it their own and find joy and peace in it. As a Hindu I thrill to Sufi music and the Muslim’s call to the Divinity. I find beauty in the Sikh gurdwaras where everyone is welcome to pray and eat with them, their generosity that Sikhism teaches in their very culture. I have lit novena candles to Mary in many cathedrals. And I am not alone, there are many like and more becoming.
Like I said atheists, not that I am saying you are because I dont know if you are or not, and others are fundamentally apart on how we perceive the world and beings. It cannot be bridged. This I have learned from this thread. It is not about good and bad, to be clear. It is a matter of perspective.
Nope. You got it wrong again.
I'm commenting as an observer, not as a member of any religion. I didn't say I only see division, I don't see the wonderful cooperation among various religions, I thought I had made it clear in the post you replied to. The comments I made were not to be perceived as majority views, but as observations of some actions that clearly happen.
I'm sorry you don't understand what I said. I thought I said it clearly.
Atheists like to cite the various cultural and political dysfunction that has happened historically through extremist fundamental religions.
Do they also acknowledge the damage atheism has done and can do politically and culturally?
“ When the era of Communist rule began in Russia in 1917, religion was seen as a hindrance to a thriving socialist society. As Karl Marx, coauthor of the The Communist Manifesto, declared, “Communism begins where atheism begins.”
Except atheism is simply not believing in gods, so there is nothing in atheism to make anyone kill (other than out group morality, which is a problem for all groups). There is nothing to acknowledge.
That Stalin was an atheist is as irrelevant as the fact that he was a man who wore trousers. If you look at the people who were killed or persecuted, they were people who had influence, such as artists, poets, politicians, the military, the religious, actors, writers, etc. Stalin removed people who were a threat to his power (including other atheists), as did Mao, Pol Pot and Hitler, because that is what power mad dictators do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
North Korea is considered an atheist state.
With a cult of personality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
More recently, a 2015 Gallup poll found the number of convinced atheists in China to be 61%, with a further 29% saying that they are not religious compared to just 7% who are religious.[9]
The numbers vary according to the poll, and where they were taken. Your figure is typical for large cities. In the country, religion is more common, with up to 70% following some form of religion. Even some members of the ruling body, the CCP are religious.
I'm commenting as an observer, not as a member of any religion. I didn't say I only see division, I don't see the wonderful cooperation among various religions, I thought I had made it clear in the post you replied to. The comments I made were not to be perceived as majority views, but as observations of some actions that clearly happen.
I'm sorry you don't understand what I said. I thought I said it clearly.
Where you keep seeing religions, I see people. People matter more than any religion, in fact it is the only thing that matters. Religions do not have to be cooperative, people can and do and because they do cooperate, there is cooperation among religions as well.
Actions are independent of religion. Religion is merely a structure that guides actions and supports learning. What people do with it is of their own volition.
It is no surprise to me that you don't feel understood. It is because we do not have the same perspective about the world and people due to what we believe about it. Often what we choose to observe works to support only what we already believe.
Yes. It has generated an "Ask an Atheist" question. I look forward to reading sincere responses on how atheists feel about the advice, since in this thread atheists have expressed upset over many posts in this thread.
Atheism is empty and has no meaning.
Atheists are all angry and sad plus are alao bittef
Atheists hate themselves
Atheists are incapable of love
Atheists have
You have no morals
Atheists deny God even though rhey know he exists and lives them
All these seniments have been expressed on CD by theists about atheists.
One atheist usdd the qord butthurt o perhaps the moderators or afministrater should ban all existing atheists or evenfuture ones from posting on CD because it offended a theist whereas telling atheists they are gping to hell is only being helpful.
You personally have no interest in asking any real questions of atheists or atheism.
Perhaps Tzap I should start a new thread asking why theists like raping little children? I mean obciously if one theist rapes children they all.must? Right accoeding to your logic?
Id rather been blamed for the use of the wird butthurt than with the deed of raping children.
So when, if ever, are you going to ask a serious and honest question to atheists?
Good morning Cb! I learned a few things about the regular posters, and posters who posted their stories that I didn't know. The diversity and thoughts and beliefs about different religions is what keeps me coming back. I don't think this is misplaced at all, and obviously CD doesn't think it's inappropriate either. You know there is very little traffic is the A&A and honestly the guys are having conversations that are way over my head.
You know my intentions were good. It seems that the religious and "spiritual" believe this is their forum, and their forum only. Check the TOS. You seem to have a LOT of curiosity about atheism now. I couldn't stand Bill Maher when I was a Christian. Now, to me, he's just a very liberal atheist who I don't necessarily see eye to eye with. After I watched his movie/documentary "Religulous", I had a little less disdain for him.
LOL I wished he would shut up too, now I want to hear more about his thoughts. Probably still won't like him, though. I'm more of a conservative atheist.
Off to pull my hair out and get beat up by a 2 yr. old.
I am a liberal atheist. I do not think too highly of Bill Maher as some of his comments are funny and many are not. He is an atheist but he is also an entertainer which means he must think he hax to be a bit controversal to stir up his audience. I do not know if he believes all he says anymore than Fox News talking heads believe what they tell their audience. Or sime if the televangelists wjen they get fired up about witches and atheists.
We should not judge any group by a single entertainer. As a Canadian I do not want to be judged by the words or actos of Justin Beiber nor do I judge Americans by thecantics of Kum Kardashian.
Interesting the some theists like to point out the deeds of a few atheists who were dictators as the evils of atheism but ignore the many theist dictators and kings that were just as bad. Maybe the idea that dictators and aurhortian regimes are what are bad regardless of the race, gender or religion.
Maybe those theists who bring up Stalun or Mao do not really wish to know the history and reasons for those regimes.
Hi Mountainrose, glad you came back. I can only speak for myself but yes, I realize that horrible things have been done and associated with atheism. I think most of it is just using atheism as a front and excuse to behave atrociously. Just like the religious do. However, you're talking about a handful of evil dictators like Putin. They were and are madmen. But that's just a handful of people who claimed atheism compared to billions of people world, most of whom are religious.
My point is, it's not the end of the world to lose your religion. Actually, it's quite enlightening. I felt a couple of times, as a Christian, that I had a very close guardian angel. I believed that I had been touched on the hand by her when I was around 6 or 7. I carried that throughout my life, just knowing I had it right and Christianity was the only way to the father. I was wrong about all of it. I always had quite an imagination so I had convinced my 7 year old self I had a personal spiritual experience. All I had to do was rationally put that together, as an adult.
Anyway, have a great day. I'm going to be late.
One of the things that has to be determined about this general topic is whether these things are done 'in the name of' religion or atheism.
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I can only speak for myself but yes, I realize that horrible things have been done and associated with atheism. I think most of it is just using atheism as a front and excuse to behave atrociously. Just like the religious do. However, you're talking about a handful of evil dictators like Putin. They were and are madmen. But that's just a handful of people who claimed atheism compared to billions of people world, most of whom are religious.
