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At the dinner table last night, grace was led by an inlaw who follows MP...it went "dear heavenly father, loving master......" and also had some references to darkness and the master's guidance into brilliant light, etc.
I about burped up all the Guiness I'd been drinking as I instantly had that cheesy picture of Olsen in my head, wearing his blue cardigan sweater and the tanned, thousand-mile stare.
Funny! Have they ever suggested that you all come to a "seeker" meeting or anything? Can't remember if you ever said. Sounds like you're not too alarmed with any of their actions at this point, like maybe they're not too "far gone". Hope that's true.
Although if someone had started praying about their "living master" guiding them to the "brillant light" at Christmas dinner with my family, I think my dad would have cut them off pretty quickly, and everyone else would have been all Moderator cut: inappropriate language laughing. Your MP relatives are fortunate to have supportive and/or understanding family members, just like Ex_Chela_And_Free wrote about.
Thanks for posting the link to "The Unknowing Sage" article, Still_Kicking. Though not a chela, I'm appreciative of any reading material right now - the weather outside is frightful where I am. And board games with the family are only entertaining for so long.
Related to your link is one I'll post below, which brings you to an excerpt from another David Lane book "Exposing Cults: When the Skeptical Mind Confronts the Mystical". Some here have probably already seen this. It's about the 'Kirpal Statistic', essentially a demonstration that the "guru" does not transmit any spiritual/mystical powers and is really not the responsible agent for his student's consciousness experiences...because, of course, the student is! It's in complete congruence with what my gut has always told me about gurus from the moment I began hearing more about the light and sound concepts of MP and similar paths.
Just finished reading it. What a genius experiment!
For many years, one of my MP duties was to attend every single initiation over the course of a Seminar weekend. 'Apart from Gary, Saint Joy was the only pure vehicle' for the Shabd or Sound. (Joy's self-description browbeaten into the heads of those who worked closely with the leaders of MP).
The aura of "spiritual drama" induced during those "sacred initiations" became ad nauseum difficult to stomach or attend.
At the end of the ceremonial rite, chelas with closed eyes in 'meditative' state, she would walk from person to person, stand in front of them, reach down, take their heads in her hands, touch their third eye, and whisper the congratulatory message in their ears. It took forever, and became a spectacle of the absurd (at least for me).
The experiment conducted by Lane is very enlightening.
To Still Kicking: I haven’t read the entire excerpt from the “Unknowing Sage” but am looking forward to it. Great post, btw.
Another good read from David Lane is “Hi Fubbi, this is Gakko.”
As far as PM21’s off-handed comment inferring a long-time feud between Olsen and Lane…hmm? Did David Lane engage a feud with Olsen over the years? The answer is an unequivocal no. For PM21 to even suggest such an outlandish piece of misinformation bespeaks of the mind-set of a believer. It is far more truthful to say that Gary Olsen was a scrambling when David Lane called him to task for plagarism!
I do have firsthand experience with Olsen's "behind the scenes" resentment/dislike for Rick Ross and the unwanted negative attention in Fargo, ND. Funny, I never read those Fargo newspaper clips until now. Reading Gary’s responses leaves me shaking my head in disbelief that I could not see then what I see now.
PM21…haven’t even bothered to read the “newest version” of an old website that you privately emailed. But I would suggest you report back and let your guru know he might want to change the crafty inference about “Gary’s meeting Charan.” in the first link you posted. To say “at the age of sixteen, Gary was exposed to the august Charan”….
Hmm, strikes me as a very odd choice of wording for a “guru” to use in describing such an auspicious moment in his life… a moment for which he wishes the reader to extrapolate a ‘sign of credibility’ to a spiritual lineage of Surat Shabd Yoga that cannot be claimed or proven as true. A moment that you touted as “Gary meeting Charan.”
Oh, I dunno, but saying that Gary was exposed to the august Charan at the age of sixteen… it might give rise to a different sort of imagery than you or your ‘master’ intends. IMO.
Sure seems that such a significant moment would garner a more apropos description. But that’s just my opinion and take-away from reading that snippet of information.
Last edited by end_of_faith; 12-26-2009 at 02:58 PM..
PM21, do I believe that Gary Olsen met Charan Singh? No, I don't believe it.
Gary's hometown of Detroit Lakes is only a few hours from Minneapolis, so is it fair to say that Gary was in the vicinity... beyond that? hmm... in my mind, seriously doubtful they actually "met each other". Also, given the years of experience I have in dealing directly with the leaders, and their 'stories'.....
I think that is why the word "exposed" is used to describe what you called a "meeting." Did Gary Olsen actually attend the event at the age of 16? In my mind it is doubtul. But here's a question for you....if Gary is going to use the unsubstantiated claim of being "exposed to Charan" as a marker of significance or connection to Radha Soami in his life... then, why didn't he seek Charan out as his "guru" and become a practitioner of Surat Shabd Yoga rather than a die-hard initiate and follower of Eckankar?
Also, regarding the initiation Gary claims to have received from Darwin Gross.... I never bought or believed that Darwin was a master, guru, or whatever.... so the "God Plane" initiation Gary claims to have received is equally worthless and meaningless in my mind.
MP is what it is, nothing more, and a whole lot less. In my mind, it is just another variation of a manmade organization that has managed to convince followers that some man has the key to unlocking the mysteries of the universe within them.
Still_Kicking's post on the idealism associated with following a path like MP is spot-on. And it definitely depicts a process that people go through is dissociating and disentangling from a group like MP.
As far as I'm concerned, MP is a product of Gary and Joyce following in the footsteps of their predecessors: Paul, Gail, and Darwin... MP doesn't represent Sant Mat or Surat Shabd Yoga.
For the rest of us: another good blog to check out by long-time (25 + years) ex-satsangis of Radha Soami is "Church of the Churchless."
To Richard.: MasterPath also has 'chelas' who were former students of MSIA, Eckankar, etc.
have a great new year.
Last edited by end_of_faith; 12-26-2009 at 05:20 PM..
@End_Of_Faith, I found and read the article,
Thank you so much for your posts as well as the nuggets of reading this article. See Link..
A few take-aways for me were:
About 3 pages into the article: I saw the reference that an Eckist Charles Richards had said about Eckankar; "People typically define cults, first of all, as based around worshiping a personality. We don't do that in Eckankar." -- Wow replace the word Eckankar with Masterpath, and you get something that Gary Olsen has said.
I was truly astounded to see how much the masterpath and Eckankar actually share terminology, and writings, far more than I had originally thought. I can see why there is so much about not sharing spiritual materials with others outside of the MP, these would likely result in charges of plagiarism from Eckankar, if not others against the MP.
I remember your earlier comment about Joyce once telling you that she was looking forward to her and Gary being the next Paul and Gail Twitchell. Wow if they were aspiring to be like these people well, IMO, they're nuts. Nut job following nut job.
Injecting a bit of levity to all of this, as Obi Won of Star Wars fame said, "who is more foolish, the fool, or the fool that follows him". I too may have been a fool for getting onto the MP, but at least I stopped drinking the kool-aid and left. Thank William of Occam, the author of Occam's Razor for that.
Hello, I was browsing the web and came across this topic. I thought I would stop by and say, "Yes, I am familiar with Gary Olsen." I have been a student of his for about nine years, and a practitioner of Surat Shabda Yoga for about 25 years (I started with Radha Soami).
After I read a few of the most recent pages here, one saying that came to mind was, "It takes one to know one." Since I'm quite sure I'm not one, I won't bother making any claims one way or another about whether I consider Gary to be a "true" guru. What I will say is that I am very satisfied with my involvement with Gary and MasterPath.
Over the years, I've found that people who are interested in the basic Light and Sound teachings will make their own decisions about what sort of connection they feel with any particular master (that also applies to any other spiritual tradition, as far as that goes). Of course, lots of "My master is holier than thou's," goes on too. If people aren't interested in the Light and Sound teachings, then any tradition pretty much seems to be considered a cult.
To each her and his own. I expect I'm in it for the long haul. I wish all here the best.
Richard, I wish all here the best too. I think it is fair to say that we all share that wish.
Since I'm quite certain that I'm not one either, I have no intention of ever claiming to be a true guru, or starting my own path, or claiming to be anything or anyone spiritual.... nor do I ever intend to follow another path, teacher, guru, etc.
I no longer believe any of it is true! That's what happens on pseudo paths with pseudo gurus, Richard. What happened in your life's journey? How many pseudo gurus did you devote yourself to before joining MP? My answer is one: MP. And that is more than enough to leave a permanent and lasting impression.
It's interesting that the conclusions of those of us who see Gary as a false guru are not considered valid or real. While the conclusions of those who see him as a true guru are viewed as spiritually enlightened.
Aren't you saying (without saying) that you know something....you use 34 years of being a practitioner of Surat Shabd Yoga as a credential for knowing something...yet, you are unable to say with certainty that you know or do not know a true guru of the very spiritual practice that you've spent 34 years time in contemplation and devotion.... yep, sounds like the state of 'knowingness' could rack up some lifetimes at that pace.
and after 34 years of being a practitioner of Surat Shabd Yoga, your most enlightened viewpoint is "it takes one to know one."
Then, why don't you take the time to rifle off some bullet points for gauging the efficacy of a Guru of Surat Shabd Yoga, beginning with Radha. What's one of your favorite lines of truth (that you contemplate) that you know for certain came directly from your living guru?
Or, why don't you take a shot at answering some of the questions on this thread by Shuffler and Violet? I will state up-front that nothing you say about MP or Gary will ever convince me that he is a true guru. Not anymore.
As far as it takes one to know one....indeed it does, and I guess it depends on what you are seeing in any given moment. Being an initiate of Gary Olsen is not a guarantee that you are free of maya and illusion. In fact, it might be a sign that you are fully entrenched in it. but that's just my opinion based on my experience. It's not exactly the end-game I had in mind when first joining MP, but hey, I guess that's the way life rolls.
I wish you the very best as well, and I do mean that...
like rememberingyou...it is time to move on in life.
Last edited by end_of_faith; 12-27-2009 at 11:03 AM..
Reason: fairness, math, clarity
After I read a few of the most recent pages here, one saying that came to mind was, "It takes one to know one." Since I'm quite sure I'm not one, I won't bother making any claims one way or another about whether I consider Gary to be a "true" guru. What I will say is that I am very satisfied with my involvement with Gary and MasterPath.
........................If people aren't interested in the Light and Sound teachings, then any tradition pretty much seems to be considered a cult.
To each her and his own. I expect I'm in it for the long haul. I wish all here the best.
You are right there is no way to know if he is a Sat Guru. But isn't that the main draw to the MP that one is getting unfailing direction for one's life? By all accounts so far that have been posted he isn't, doesn't that make you stand up and ask some more pointed questions of the MP and Gary?
OK you are satisfied with the MP and Gary, but how are you satisfied?
The teachings are basically a rip off from R.S. and Eckankar, so if your falling back on that, then your line of reasoning is...well questionable mate. Please re-look at the rationale that you have. I do not mean to dispel anything for you but moving from R.S. onto MP could be nothing more than "cult hopping" and the reason for that is not seeing why one would be sincerely looking at why they are even involved in something like MP, particularly post R.S.
Look I get it if you've got some pain in your life and you would like to think that there is something that can heal that for you. If being on the MP does that for you great, really. If you expect it to down the road, well I will you hope you find it. It just hasn't for the majority of folks that are posting here who were very sincere in their devotion to it - that counts for something surely.
What we are looking for here is some actual examples on how the MP either helped or didn't help? Please provide a post on that, that might be more helpful / useful for those checking out the validity of the MP and Gary Olsen.
I was recently reflecting on the Bird flu extravaganza ( called catastrophizing in cult exit terms) and remembered how it flipped an already intense time in life upside down. We were instructed to have a 3 - 4 month plan and a 2-3 year plan. Everyone I knew scrambled to prepare for the coming calamity, which Gary gave a 90 % chance of happening. I sold my car to have enough money to do the 2-3 year plan because I trusted Gary and was sure the BF was "imminent". I am still driving the old beater that I ended up with from this boondogle. What I did was nothing compared to other chelas. Do you know that at the next seminar he exclaimed with great seriousness that perhaps the whole thing was a trick of the Master to help us see what our attachments were? What a Jerk ( there are other words I would use here ). Still I sat there mooney eyed and brain washed by this black magic magician from Minnesota. Thank God there is life after Masterpath and it is better than it ever was under his pseudo protection.
Please review your experience on the path with a new eye. You will undoubtedly begin to see the cracks in Gary, his cohorts and his "discombobbled" lectures.
I have come to find that any pseudo guru can manifest in my dreams...http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/kirpal_statistic.htm ( Thanks Violet...great read!) ripped with that beautiful energy that I believed must have been from Gary. NOT. That spiritual high is from my own soul. I gave that power to Gary and now have taken it back. Funny that my life has come into such beautiful balance since leaving MP. It was hard at first. I have gone through stages of depression, disbelief, anger and jubilation. It takes time to withdraw and build a new foundation, but it is very doable and you do not have to do it alone.
Peace
Last edited by SoulPatriot; 12-28-2009 at 08:44 AM..
Yep, and I'm guessing many chelas stay on the path in part because they honestly believe the powerful "inner experiences" they're having are being orchestrated by (or because of) Gary Olsen. I understand and feel for them, but they are simply mistaken.
If there is a "God", and we can reach him/it, then we could probably be on the wrong path with the wrong leader - and still reach "God"! For instance, I doubt most MasterPath followers believe John-Roger from M.S.I.A. is a true master, yet J.R.'s followers experience the same spiritual wonders they do. How can that be?
"God" must be something universal, which of course is the reason all religions feel they have the one true way to the creator. Many, if not most, have felt the power of that "divine" connection at one time or another, and this tends to "prove" to them that whatever dogma they've been taught is true.
MasterPath is no different in that regard. Well, except the belief is that "God", or "Anami", or higher soul consciousness, or whatever, is only attainable through a conduit...the "master" Gary Olsen, the "black magic magician from Minnesota" as SoulPatriot put it - a 60+ year old former Eckenkar initiate with narcissistic personality disorder, a tanning bed, and a bad temper. To each his own indeed!
I remembered a meeting one time when Gary said that once when he was going into a fast food restaurant, and there was a beggar sitting outside of the place, panhandling for money. Gary reached into his pocket and gave him some money. Then Gary goes onto say that he got his food, a cheeseburger or whatever and sat down he looked out into the parking lot and the beggar changed out of his grungy clothes, and got into a nice truck and drove off. Gary then commented that it was so strange that here was this man who was essentially stealing from him a "living master" and that this man was so oblivious of the, karmic debt he was accruing, etc...Gary then went onto some other spiel, I forget the rest of what was said.
Why do I bring this up? Well according to what Gary says, is that everyone create's their own realities and if there is something amiss then that will be pointed out to you as well.
Here's my take on this little experience of his.
1. He too can be duped. Join the club, simply put Gary doesn't have special psychic / mystical powers to see into the hearts, minds and intentions of others, let alone akashic files or other such mumbo jumbo and that he too can be chumped / punked just like anyone else can.
2. Or that this is a reflection of his own actions and in that he is duping others, and stealing from them and taking off with their money.
3. That there are "cause and effect" consequences (see karma) to his behavior that he too will be held accountable (maybe?)
Who knows why he brought this story up to begin with, perhaps a bit of a self confession? a Freudian slip? who knows but whatever he said after that story never stuck with me, but the story sure did for some reason.
The best that could be said about Gary is that he is misguided, and that is as nice as could be said. If he is misguided then where does that leave those still on the MP? Misguided as well at a minimum.
If he simply doesn't know or realize because he's always in conversation with Anami, or his God, or some other entity, it is deceiving him and everyone else along with Gary, then Gary is a schmo.
The worst that could be said, well it is beyond PG-13 words to express.
However until it is proved otherwise I tend to think that he does know what he is doing and is simply doesn't care about the impact to people on the MP. He's getting paid, its all covered under "their" karmic debt to pay in order to learn the lesson whatever that is. A very predatory and cynical rationale, and a narcissistic one to boot.
Buyer beware I say.
And have an awesome new year.
Cheers,
Last edited by Still_Kicking; 12-31-2009 at 12:46 PM..
Reason: grammer
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Have they ever suggested that you all come to a "seeker" meeting or anything? Can't remember if you ever said. Sounds like you're not too alarmed with any of their actions at this point, like maybe they're not too "far gone". Hope that's true. 
re: "Hi Fubbi, this is Gakko"
