Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (philosophers, quote, faith)

[Still_Kicking]

Peacemaker21,

I appreciate what you've contributed here, but I do have some questions for you about your experience.

The chela being murdered raised a red flag to me, why doesn't it do that for you now? -- How do you see that differently?

You also mentioned that you took a break from the MP, can you explain why you left and then why you went back?

[end_of_faith]

Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21

So...why is this Gary guy needed at all...? Well, his entire reputation is staked on his ability to manifest in the third eye of a student or seeker ....

I'll only see/know this to be true or not when I "open my third-eye" - which is the major focus in my life aside from work and family duties (and to a lesser or greater extent I believe this is the objective of every other chela on MP who has yet to get-open and keep-open their third-eye, and to gain their "third-knowingness" as it were: when we see, we'll know!

So...in summary...

Outer Master...? Sri Gary...? irregularities...? Let the tax-man decide!

Inner Master...? Gar-ji...? Let our third-eyes decide... :-)

May the miracle-virgin-birth of third-eye-sight be granted to all fellow seekers and friends experiencing labor pains...I feel them (subjectively) in me too...

Peace and love

So....in summary....

In your 14 years of devoted practice, your "great guru" has not PROVEN his ability to manifest in your 3rd eye! Yup, may that "miracle-virgin-birth bull**** rap" be granted to you soon!

as far as "Let our third-eyes decide..." I've stated the conclusions of my "inner and outer experience". But hey, it appears and sounds like you have quite the distance to travel before arriving at the truth you seek to know and see. I recently listened to a tape of Gary...and he's still rambling on about 'finishing the course of simran' = guru bhakti = outer master instruction and direction.... from 1987 to 2008. What a total crock of BS he's selling.

Peace and love to you too.

also, a few more questions to add to the list from "Still_Kicking"

how is that a UK student would know the chela had a son?

In addition to being a scientist, are you also a fireman as stated in your first post (or were you just humoring us?)

[end_of_faith]

another little tidbit from the seminar by Gary. He was talking about a question that had been asked of a large group of people, something along the lines: if the world was ending in a day what would matter most to you, or who would you think of first. (it may not be an exact quote, but the general idea is there). The majority responded by saying: family.

Gary then went off on one of his "masterly" dissertations. He said "if you're a second initiate (and above) and this question was posed to you, and you put FAMILY BEFORE the MASTER, then, you're in tinseltown." He then went on to back it up with things like "do you even understand the path you are on? What did Jesus say: anyone that loves their family, husband, wife more than the Master is not worthy. This is the importance of the Living Master." The Living Master is here to tell you no, no, no that is not correct, or yes, yes, that is right. Yep, that "Outer Master" surely exercises tremendous mental influence over his students on their "inner spiritual path."

Tis the season to be in tinseltown.... I much prefer the tinseltown of family and friends over delusionville...the gurudom state of Gary, his wife, and his foot servants.

[Still_Kicking]

Do I still believe in God, given what I've gone through on the MP?

Yes, but without the false idolatry of using another's image, Gary's in this case, to represent it.

I was reminded recently of a previous post of whenever a chela expressed a potential desire to leave the path they would be chastised that they would be lost...that the world would turn against them...etc...
What Gary is doing in effect is trying to tear away at their own free will to leave, whenever he has done this he has in effect made an attempt to take away the hope of happiness or connection to god, or even the possibility of salvation, from chelas who contemplate leaving, and bind them to the to him, that this is in fact a wicked (see evil) act.

How do I know that this is an evil or wicked act?

I'll use a quote from Winston Churchill. "whether you believe or disbelieve [in god], it is surely a wicked thing to take a man's hope".

Gary's statements are simply unnecessary and certainly do not represent the attitude that I have heard expressed that he and others have stated prior to getting on the MP, that people are free to come and go as they please. If he truly believed that then there would never be a need to make such statements to hold people to the MP. These are not the statements of a god-man, but a narcissist. I see no other justification, especially since that this behavior has been repeated more than once.

His statements of tolerance and love for all faiths, let alone for all to reach god in their own way, again all things that you hear when your 1st checking out the path are undermined by these obviously contradictory statements when one is actually thinking about leaving the MP.

From this alone; I see the truth and know the truth. Funny thing about truth sometimes, its actually rather simple.

Cheers

[end_of_faith]

Here's another quote from the "Master" to his students. "It's never the path, never the Master that's the problem...now if it's a pseudo path....but a true master, a true path...will never let you down. It will always be YOUR shortcomings."

yep, that's a perfect example of the indoctrination on MP. And with enough repetition and practice, people actually begin believing and adopting it as 'truth.'

[Still_Kicking]

Originally Posted by end_of_faith

Here's another quote from the "Master" to his students. "It's never the path, never the Master that's the problem...now if it's a pseudo path....but a true master, a true path...will never let you down. It will always be YOUR shortcomings."

yep, that's a perfect example of the indoctrination on MP. And with enough repetition and practice, people actually begin believing and adopting it as 'truth.'

Absolutely, and that is the reason why this is a closed system, using a circular reasoning to keep people locked into the MP, so they are too afraid to question Gary, the teachings, etc.. since he is an alleged 'god-man', above refute, and makes people too afraid to go back to relying on their own mental/spiritual faculties to seeing the truth for themselves, let alone even contemplate leaving. Since by that point in time they have now abandoned their own mind's ability to discern the truth of matters for themselves, since it was forced as a part of the accepting Gary, the MP teachings, etc.. as the be all, and end all, the summum bonum BS spiel. And one is left without the faculty of discerning the truth for themselves, in their 3rd eye or otherwise. This is what is known as "thought reform"

Free your mind, and your ass will follow... We are caretakers of our own soul's, and our minds, and our emotions. For example you wouldn't knowingly put yourself in an abusive relationship would you? But it happens for a variety of reasons. We have to accept that there are people who at 1st behave in a manner that is charming, kind and friendly to begin with, that is until you're sucked in. And then the behavior, and their real self shows itself, but by that point it should you contemplate leaving there are all sorts of threats, doesn't that remind you of abusive relationship? It does me.

-I am reminded of how so many women get into abusive relationships via this mode. Kind of ironic how Gary once mentioned at a seminar that he would always likely have more women chelas than men. He also offered up at that point that he didn't know why. No offense against women, hey I got taken in so that doesn't mean that men can't be duped either.

Again if it "smells like a fish, looks like a fish, acts like a fish, then more than likely it's a fish". My fish comment is a version of Ockham's Razor, see next post.

[Still_Kicking]

"Ockham's Razor" is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" and the conclusion thereof, that the simplest explanation or strategy tends to be the best one. When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood. -- cited from Wikipedia

Simply put, ask yourself this. Which hypothesis has the fewest assumptions? What Gary proposes or what a person suffering from a narcissistic, anti-social personality disorder might say?

My conclusion after looking at all of the facts, and opinions, is that the one with the least amount of assumptions is the one where Gary is a narcissist, suffering from anti-social personality disorder.

You make the call, this is about you being able to take back your own mind's ability to discern the truth. Discernment is faculty of the mind, even the MP literature says that.

Now the final argument that I suspect that Gary, or a dyed-in-the-wool MP'er might counter with, is that I am "just projecting my own tendency". A convenient tactic of countering any true dialog or discussion, and to nullify any critical questioning or reasoning. An obfuscation tactic if there ever was one. --It doesn't wash with the one that according to Gary that people are free to leave, and then be berated for even thinking about leaving, let alone in fact leaving.

Add it all up for yourself and see what comes out for you

[PeaceMaker21]

Mornin everyone - the thread's really moving apace again and with a nice vibe to it especially since Still_Kicking joined - I'm loving it - I think it's great we have this area for chelas, ex-chelas and observers to interact freely without censure, fear or ridicule (and I wholeheartedly agree with the point made earlier: that fear is one of a cult's primary methods of control) - at least this thread is one mileu of self-expression, free of such control...my major challenge is: can I keep my own personality regulated enough so my soul can truly see…?

"Truth holds its own" is one of my modi operandi in life and what I find great about this thread is that anything spoken or written herein is rightly subject to the keenest scrutiny, and anyone who says something on it is required to back it up with proof and explanation - just like a scientific approach.

(For the record, @EOF: I'm not a fireman (that was just a figurative reference at the time of creating the PM21 ID to my attempt to put a lil water (or gas!) on the flame-war that was in full-bloom during the Allan-days up to October this year). Granted, my PM21 name is no longer really relevant - but unlike on Twitter, on CDF it doesn't seem I can change it - I could have retired it of course, and “reincarnated myself” under a new ID here, but just as in real-life I can't swap my identity (Face/Off-style), nor do I have any plans to end this physical incarnation early, I thought it equally appropriate to stick with this moniker till its last logical breath.

Had to leave in a hurry yesterday after posting and didn't properly finish my thank you to @Violet11 sorry - I should have asked you first before paraphrasing from your DM to me, and I certainly did not want to copy-and-paste from it without your permission...but thanks for clarifying: I thought your analogy was an astute observation on the nature of a bond between a guru and student, and all I wanted to say in that regard, is that I'm still very much in the "in love" phase but always keep my eyes open.

Hope I manage to address all the points made by everyone while London was sleeping under snow...looks like I just crossed posts with @S_K - Looking forward to reading and following up her earlier links...thanks!

@EOF: thanks for asking about my scientific background: Briefly: I graduated from Imperial College with a Major in Chemical Engineering and Chemical Technology, and minors in biochemistry and environmental engineering – Currently working at an Oil and Gas services company involved with projects such as PCC: Post-Combustion CO2 capture to try to reduce the impact of the global warming we engineers also cause with our power stations and oil-refineries - ahh the give and take of karma! I have been interested in both conventional science, parapsychology and the paranormal since my early teens, and first found out about the ideas of Rupert Sheldrake in 1995 before I’d heard of MP: at the time I was learning about Tibetian Buddhism (via Rama) and Christian Mysticism (Gnosis (http://www.gnostic-institute.org/index.htm - broken link) and also the Order of the Rosy Cross) amongst other things.

Anyone (whether chela or not) who has even slightly experienced their Third-Eye opening will know that getting there is not the only difficulty – it’s the keeping it open – i.e. maintaining that blissful state constantly and naturally – that is the major challenge – for chelas and all spiritual seekers – so personally, I haven’t got a problem with the 14 years+ it has taken me so far – it may take 14+ more but there’s a lot of seeing and learning at the chakras on the way up…so the way I see it, I’m in it for the long-haul…under this Master or another…but I trust I will get there

Conventional science and mysticism agree that energy and matter are indestructible – Death and Life are part of the Cycle and Recycle of Eternal Life – Some chelas might remember the seminars post 9/11, and post-2004-Tsunami – the mind could chew forever on pondering whether anyone had free will or not in those situations, and if so how much, and how much was fated…..

Now, I’m not for a moment trying to use this “life is eternal” principle to justify murder – it is no doubt against the laws of all the lands and all religions, and a violation of one of the tenets of MP too: “the Brotherhood of Man and the mutual respect for all life” – so I don’t doubt that the interruption of life that Francisco Castillo is responsible for will have “karmic consequences” for him in this world (and maybe the next) and who knows what these will be? – To understand why Doug died, I guess we would need to be aware of the full karmic story and the record of events in this life (and previous lives maybe) that led up to the incident – Gary claims that Garji is aware of all of these things, and that Garji has access to the time-track and Akashic records of every soul under his tutelage so if that is indeed the case, we can only assume that “it was meant to be” and “allowed to happen”.

It’s this very aspect – about the interaction between free-will and fate and the various inner spiritual powers-that-be in our personal and interactive lives with others, that currently has me the most fascinated and, as I suggested a while back, one of my ways of acting to know to try to solve this riddle was perhaps to start a new thread...but here seems as good a place as any - especially with @Still_Kicking giving such vitality and criticality to proceedings – thank you S_K and everyone – keep it coming….!

[Violet11]

Peacemaker, you've stated that you simply want to open your third eye and keep it open. Why did you choose MasterPath as the method for opening your third eye? What makes you think it will be successful as opposed to other methods?

I'm gathering you believe Gary Olsen will eventually be able to guide you through other dimensions, places beyond that "peak experience". Is this because other chelas have told you he's done it for them? Do you honestly believe he can direct anyone's consciousness experience? Has he given anyone indications or 'code words' in waking life after such experiences to prove he caused them? What critical thinking methods have you used in determining that Gary is capable of this? "Peak experiences" cannot be considered evidence, as most people who have them are not on MP.

If your objective analysis leads you to believe he is capable, then why is opening your third eye prioritized behind your family and work (as you wrote in your previous post). Gary says the master has to come first, so why are you in tinseltown?

Have you tried LSD to experience new dimensions? Okay, I'm joking and no, I've never dropped acid myself. But I've heard friends' experiences and it's pretty fascinating. If you're a scientist then you know Kary Mullis credits LSD for his discovery of PCR, a staple in DNA testing.

So yes, we certainly can't comprehend all there is to know about the human brain (or "God" if such a thing exists). I understand you wanting to tap into higher 'planes of consciousness' and what not. What puzzles me is why you'd choose, for that purpose, some guy in the states who loves his tanning bed. And why you'd pay for his plagiarized materials as opposed to another's. Particularly with the reputation he has as a cult leader and the troubling behaviors/inconsistencies you've observed.

[Still_Kicking]

OK here we go. Oh yeah I'm a guy, and engineer by education and experience so we share some common background.

Cycle of Life and indestructibility of energy, etc..OK no problem there. However I don't think anyone has refuted any of that, so let's not bring in aspects that no one is challenging that misdirects the dialog......Not unless of course you're trying to use this as a means and basis for why what Gary says is irrefutable, then that falls under the purview of "if" he says this "then" whatever else follows is also naturally true. -- Sorry brother it just ain't necessarily so, it's a slippery slope you get on with that.

Let's face it the whole aspect of akashic records cannot be verified or validated by anyone, that is unless you believe that Gary says he can.

The comment you make "that it was meant to be” and “allowed to happen” re: the death of Doug is stretching it a bit don't you think? Especially since Gary makes such a statement that you are under his protection, tutelage, etc...since that is one of the tenants that draws people to the MP. What good is having a god-man in helping one negotiate one's way through life and its challenges if you go off and kill your friend? "He/It" was not there helping either one of these chelas, it was just their karma, the fall back argument whenever things turn bad, that I've heard from others, but there is no way to validate that either. --In the end it is you that has to deal with the challenges of life, and make the best sense of it, get the lesson from it, or just persevere in face of difficulty, and learn and adapt. But that is no different than how it was before one got onto the MP, without a supposed inner master guiding one.

Look getting into the metaphysical aspects of what is true or not true about the teachings cannot be verified objectively, it is all subjective, meaning it is an individual thing that has to believed. If you've got a warm fuzzy for it great for you, seriously. However that is not majority of people. I say this simply using some deductive reasoning, that in the history of the MP, there have been more people on the MP that have left, than are on it currently. But getting the full data set on how many originally have joined and are no longer on the MP vs. how many chelas that are current with dues....well lets just say that won't likely be forthcoming from the MP office, because that sheds doubt on the veracity of the masterpath. Or you can just fall back to the the MP isn't for everyone, wow what a safe and convenient retreat, since the truth is never brought to light.

Do you see that there is a pattern to this, that there is a set way of defending each position with something that cannot be validated?

But what has been repeatedly brought up by more than just myself is Gary's behavior has had many short falls, and he has hurt many people's feelings, (and that is in spite of his statement that one should never do that). --His comments and berating chelas who are reconsidering their involvement in the MP makes him guilty of breaking the very rule he demands that chelas follow. Sort of a "Do as I say not as I do" thing, what sort of role model is that? You can of course well fall back on the argument of "the outer master is unconventional", or that "the methods of the master are unusual". But when does all of this become a questioning of one's own naivety and ignorance about the likes of people who have gary's personality? Or even that we hold the outer master up to at least to the standard that he purports that we do as chelas? That my friend, to me at least, is hypocritical behavior.

So if no one can verify, well except Gary, then there is no other response but to go "bliss out" in the 3rd eye and turn off the mind so that no questions can be raised and everything can go along as it always has. But in my experience that will do damage to your mental faculties, and it is proven that the mind is like a muscle, stop using and it atrophies. Use a "thought stopping" technique on it long enough and it will blunt the tool and no longer be able to function in normal everyday life. In the end you get burned by the very path / master who was supposed to help you, all in the name of freeing your soul.

Sincerely I do wish you the best and I do hope that you get you want from life and your spiritual pursuits. From what I can tell you're as genuine and sincere as anyone could be. Best of luck mate.