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What I can tell you is that I once had a gift I donated to Sri Gary returned to me: posted all the way back to the UK, and certainly all chelas know that no donation, however large, can ever "buy" the next initiation: there is simply no money involved in the initiation process - As I said just above regarding photos, the same is true of donations and gifts made by chelas - it's their choice to gift, with no expectation of anything in return.
Well, maybe next time you'll give a bit more thought to the value of the gift you are offering your guru. Maybe you should buy a private plane and become his pilot, or donate 50k a year to fund privately chartered jets for him, or possibly 400k...seems your guru humbly accepts those gifts, and they are not 'postage paid' returned to the sender. And oh, are you really wowed by mail 'posted all the way to the UK'?
Who said anything about 'buying' the next initiation? Who said anything about money involved in the initiation process? Those are your thoughts being expressed, not ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21
I do recall MP as an organization have made donations to disaster relief charities - there was a major storm many years back that affected Mexico I believe, and all chelas received a note describing that a donation had been made
....by his long-term legacy is a Master known.
Why didn't he donate to the country where the tax-payers live that support his non-profit? Interesting. What year did they donate? Why does he donate to the country where he spends time vacationing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21
I honestly don't know any more about the 1964 meeting between Charan Singh Ji and 16-year old Gary Olsen - Perhaps someone from RSSB has the historical records?
Peace.
I doubt it. But I do wonder if Eckankar keeps historical records.
Peacemaker, one more question for you:
Why hasn't your guru talked about the horrifically tragic death of a chela at the hands of another chela? Clearly, there are people deeply affected. Doesn't your guru hold a position of "spiritual responsibility" for offering guidance and understanding to this chelas? I mean, isn't he the one that you just described as having realized all these 'inner realms of supreme consciousness?' You know, it's what sets him apart from the rest of us bumbling, unenlightened bozos.
Your guru might want to contemplate re-writing the imagery around what a chela gets for 30 bucks a month. Seems the 'ever-present protection and guidance of the Inner Master' didn't work out so well for D.M (the 5th initiate of the "inner Sound Current!"). But then, of course, I don't believe you can 'buy' that kind of imaginary protection!
Instead, why doesn't you guru simply tell his students the truth: your membership dues pay salaries and benefits for the 'outer master', his wife, and all staff employees. A discourse costs less than a dollar to print (from 1987-2006).
Last edited by end_of_faith; 11-21-2009 at 10:36 AM..
@End_of_faith: the hardcore physical proof you asked for
Quote:
Originally Posted by end_of_faith
Peacemaker,
How did you access or obtain a copy of the FAQ?
My initial impression: the information has been recently edited and/or re-written. The only thing that would quell my doubt is hardcore physical proof, as in seeing the dates of alteration on the original hard-drive where the original document is/has been stored. The proof that I would now insist extends far beyond believing you, and definitely not the ‘word of your guru.’ So, (in my mind) your Guru’s credibility is still very much on the line.
Hi @EOF and all again - I totally appreciate your need for proof - I'm on the same quest for the truth myself, and as I said, remain open-minded as new info comes to light - Attached is a screen-grab from my hard-disk - showing the files were all modified in Mar-2002 - To make it legible click on the thumbnail then expand the image to full size in your browser window.
I realize now I am getting to know this forum-software a bit better, that I could also have attached the PDF of the FAQ I posted earlier this week in the same manner, and didn't need to resort to e-Snips - Oh well, all part of the learning process...
I saved-down a local-copy of the files from the old MP website to my hard-drive in 2002 and 'printed to PDF' the FAQ one from these saved files earlier last week to produce the file you saw - You are correct, apart from the quote at the end, the article was not written by Sri Gary but by two of his senior chelas - I have removed their names from the top of the article to protect their privacy and uphold my pledge of anonimity (I'm sure they would contact me if they wanted to be identified) but other than that, not a single edit has been made.
I am actually a little surprised that you were not aware of the website previously, having been in close contact with Sri Gary and office staff until 2006, as it ran for nearly three years approximately between 2000 and 2003 before being taken down, and replaced with the current, much simpler site but maybe word did not get around to you.
posting more in a moment...
PM21
Last edited by PeaceMaker21; 11-21-2009 at 01:05 PM..
Reason: corrected grammar and added instructions
The latest details to emerge from @SoulPatriot are very alarming - 'WTF?!' indeed and I share your horror -
@SoulPatriot, I feel for the loss of your dear friend - Are you stating on the public record that one 5th initiate chela murdered his boyfriend, Doug Montgomery, who was also a 5th initiate, with butter knives? I am truly shocked that this hasn't been mentioned by any chelas or Sri Gary even in passing as yet -Is it a very recent event? - Do you have any web links to the news coverage?
This is a disturbing and alarming development...
PM21
Last edited by PeaceMaker21; 11-21-2009 at 01:45 PM..
Reason: removed "plastic" in response to @end_of_faith's comment below...posting more shortly
it seems that there were many "key" things that did not get around to me...
re: your response to SoulPatriot.... he did not say "plastic butter knives"
he said: butter knives that kept breaking
and oh, Peacemaker, please do not attempt to convince me or SoulPatriot that your master Gary Olsen is not, or was not made aware of this horrific tragedy! I seriously doubt that chela/s chose NOT to contact the office to inform the "Master."
Last edited by end_of_faith; 11-21-2009 at 02:28 PM..
Well, maybe next time you'll give a bit more thought to the value of the gift you are offering your guru. Maybe you should buy a private plane and become his pilot, or donate 50k a year to fund privately chartered jets for him, or possibly 400k...seems your guru humbly accepts those gifts, and they are not 'postage paid' returned to the sender. And oh, are you really wowed by mail 'posted all the way to the UK'?
I guess all I was saying there is that the gifts I gave didn't need to be posted back to me - they could have thrown them in the bin, sold them on e-Bay or given them away - So at the time, posting the gifts back seemed like a small detail that meant a lot to me then, but yes, in the light of the bigger revelations that are being made on this thread today, my appreciation of this gesture becomes relatively insignificant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by end_of_faith
Who said anything about 'buying' the next initiation? Who said anything about money involved in the initiation process? Those are your thoughts being expressed, not ours.
Yes money's been talked a lot about on this thread, but it was me who brought it up in the context of initiations - They are not 'my thoughts' - it's the reality of how the MP initiations are structured, as it stated on the FAQ:
Quote:
MasterPath never charges fees for initiation, only membership dues. Sri Gary recognizes that the liquidation of certain karmas through membership dues is preferable to the chela actually experiencing the deluge of these effects in one’s everyday life.
Regarding DM's murder, I'm definitely not trying to convince you or anyone else that Sri Gary was not aware of this: I was as much in the dark as you were until @SoulPatriot's post this morning, hence my shock and horror. I must admit that the quote above now has a bitter irony to it in light of what happened to DM. I presume the other chela has been arrested and sentenced if this is not a recent event?
I think Sri Gary once mentioned in a seminar, that there are a few chelas of his serving time in prison, receiving discourses (presumably for free unless some other way of paying for them is in place...?), who are not going to get out of prison in this lifetime: murder would certainly be a crime warranting a life-sentence - is it possible that DM's murderer is one such chela now in prison?: I'm asking open questions in a sincere attempt to get to the truth of what's really going on here - not trying to prove anything to anyone.
Quote:
Why didn't he donate to the country where the tax-payers live that support his non-profit? Interesting. What year did they donate? Why does he donate to the country where he spends time vacationing?
I honestly don't have the details / bulletin note to hand any more - maybe one of the other chela-readers of this thread can remember the specifics?
Quote:
Why hasn't your guru talked about the horrifically tragic death of a chela at the hands of another chela? Clearly, there are people deeply affected. Doesn't your guru hold a position of "spiritual responsibility" for offering guidance and understanding to this chelas? I mean, isn't he the one that you just described as having realized all these 'inner realms of supreme consciousness?' You know, it's what sets him apart from the rest of us bumbling, unenlightened bozos.
Your guru might want to contemplate re-writing the imagery around what a chela gets for 30 bucks a month. Seems the 'ever-present protection and guidance of the Inner Master' didn't work out so well for D.M (the 5th initiate of the "inner Sound Current!"). But then, of course, I don't believe you can 'buy' that kind of imaginary protection!
Instead, why doesn't your guru simply tell his students the truth: your membership dues pay salaries and benefits for the 'outer master', his wife, and all staff employees. A discourse costs less than a dollar to print (from 1987-2006).
You ask a lot of valid and interesting questions @EOF - like I said, I am not your enemy - I am simply talking about my experiences, and want answers just as much as you do...
The Truth will out - it always does in the end...
with peace and love, PM21
Last edited by PeaceMaker21; 11-21-2009 at 03:07 PM..
Reason: typo fixed
I appreciate that, @EOF - neither of us is enemies of each other - like every one of the beautiful chelas to date that I have met over the course of 14 years, we all desire just the Simple Truth.
Also you did not wrongly quote @SoulPatriot: S/He does state that DM's boyfriend was a 5th initiate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulPatriot
Wonder what Doug Montgomery felt when his fifth initiate boyfriend methodically murdered him with butter knives that kept "breaking". Where was his protection? He was even a Seva Chela. Wonder why the "Master" never spoke of his demise to the chela body? How can you explain something so gruesome happening to the elite of the planet by the hands of one of the elite? And still no comment from the greatest being alive. Doug was a dear friend of mine and I am pissed his passing was swept under the rug. He deserved more than that. He was a devoted student of you Gary. Lets continue.
.
.
.
There really is no debate Peacemaker. Open your eyes or continue the delusion that you are almost home...
my eyes are being opened more than you can imagine...
Let's Let the Truth Out!
PM21
Last edited by PeaceMaker21; 11-21-2009 at 03:38 PM..
I guess all I was saying there is that the gifts I gave didn't need to be posted back to me - they could have thrown them in the bin, sold them on e-Bay or given them away - So at the time, posting the gifts back seemed like a small detail that meant a lot to me then, but yes, in the light of the bigger revelations that are being made on this thread today, my appreciation of this gesture becomes relatively insignificant.
Peacemaker, I'm curious if you'd mind telling us what the gift was? Did the package it was returned in contain a note of explanation from your guru? Are you sure it was opened, or perhaps there was a postage or U.S. customs problem? I'm curious what type of gift Gary would have refused.
Quote:
MasterPath never charges fees for initiation, only membership dues. Sri Gary recognizes that the liquidation of certain karmas through membership dues is preferable to the chela actually experiencing the deluge of these effects in one’s everyday life.
No one insinuated that money buys initiations of course. Here's the thing I am wondering though: the quote above does indicate that money (in the form of dues) is a preferable exchange for "the liquidation of certain karmas". Is it possible some chelas might interpret this to mean that the more money they donate to MP, the more of their karma will be "liquidated"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21
Regarding DM's murder, I'm definitely not trying to convince you or anyone else that Sri Gary was not aware of this: I was as much in the dark as you were until @SoulPatriot's post this morning, hence my shock and horror. I must admit that the quote above now has a bitter irony to it in light of what happened to DM.
To echo the comments made by SoulPatriot and end_of_faith, the tragic circumstances of this chelas death also put into question Gary's claims about the benefits of paying dues. "Ever-present protection and guidance of the master" my a$#. It's a crock, and this chela's untimely death is not the only evidence of that. This whole notion of the "master's protection" sounds a little bit like a mafia protection racket. Less effective however.
Also, with regard to the donations Gary announced were made on behalf of MP to a disaster relief effort in Mexico, you yourself mentioned that this flyer was sent out to members "many years ago". This was the only instance of MP's charitable contribution to the world you could remember in all of your fourteen years as a chela. That says a lot. And who knows, that particular hurricane/storm might have affected Gary's marijuana supply chain, hence the tugging of his heart strings.
Last edited by Violet11; 11-21-2009 at 04:02 PM..
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@End_of_faith: the hardcore physical proof you asked for
To: @SoulPatriot re Doug Montgomery
