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Okay, here is my less flip answer, Violet, about what the mechanism which allows the guru to take on karma entails…if not the “mechanism,” then at least my experience of how one might be vulnerable enough to buy into it.
Believing that guru takes on your karma is like a regression into childhood, where you know that if mom is in the room, the monsters will not come out from under the bed. This is a pretty universal human experience. It’s hard wired in us.
Shortly after I left MP, I read James Michener’s book, Hawaii. In the opening chapters there is a scene in which the Tahitians must decide which god they should take with them on their trip: is it Tane or Oro? They take both gods, represented by a small talisman that lives in a little hut which they also bring along. On their journey across the seas to what will become known as Hawaii, they throw one of the gods overboard. Must have been the right one, because they made it to Hawaii.
Now we can say that the story is primitive, but I would argue: no it’s a story of human nature and it applies to human nature today as well. “Human beings tend to be meaning seeking creatures,” says Karen Armstrong in The Bible, a Biography. “And without some pattern of significance in our lives, we fall easily into despair.”
People in masterpath are seeking meaning and along with that meaning easily comes the tendency to believe that mom is in the room protecting you from monsters hiding under the bed. So the mechanism that allows the guru to take on karma is our need to feel protected from that which we cannot see and the gullibility produced by the belief that someone has the power to "take" from us that which is undesirable. With these guru types it’s a perfect set-up, because they don’t have to prove that they took your karma…they can always say I protected you from being hit by a bus…but how would you ever really know that? One of the things that Gary Olsen emphasizes over and over again in his seeker meetings is that for your 40.00 bucks a month or whatever is being charged these days, you get your discourse and “the master’s protection. What we don’t know is what the master is protecting you from? Monsters under the bed? Or monsters in your own consciousness that swear allegiance to whatever that fear is in your own brain; the hope for and belief in protection from somewhere. We would all like to feel a lot more in control than we really are.
So the jump from “the master taking my karma” is not far from the belief of “the master is protecting me.” Just before leaving masterpath, I started to outgrow the need to believe that someone could protect me. A lot of life is random and the joys and sorrows that happen are just the stuff of life. As I was planning my exit strategy from mp, I got a call from a friend on the path who told me that a mutual friend of ours (not on masterpath) had been in a horrible accident on his motorcycle, and he had not been wearing a helmet. After I expressed my sincere sorrow for the accident and the suffering that was causing this individual and his family, my masterpath friend said this to me: “yeah, and he doesn’t even have a master either.” As if somehow this individual was less worthy, less loveable, less able to heal from his injuries because he did not have a master?! The remark from my friend was a final validation on why I was leaving the masterpath cult. This was the kind of insensitivity and arrogance that mastepath bred. I had seen it before and now it was helping to bring me to my senses and my God-given ability to think!
Over the years people on masterpath have died in accidents; suffered tragedies in their life; lost loved ones and the party line is that it’s all just purification…either that or Gary Olsen can't take your karma or offer any real protection, but claiming to do so certainly helps him collect his monthly take. And that’s my take on all of that, Violet.
Thanks rememberingyou, for both the humorous answer and the more in depth answer. The motorcycle accident story hit home because I had a cousin who died in a motorcycle accident years ago, and the situation relates. His parents were extremely "religious" if that's what you want to call it. His father (my uncle) could very well have turned into another Gary Olsen, come to think of it. The man was so arrogant that no church was good enough for his brand of godliness. Apparently he and my aunt would worship weekly with a group of about ten people, and based on his pious views and his strong persona, he was the leader of these so called bible studies.
Anyway, when the motorcycle accident took their son's life, my aunt said to my mom - verbatim - "We told him to stop listening to that rock and roll music, but he wouldn't. And now this happened". Unreal. Yes, they apparently believed in a God who would kill people based on rock music. Though somehow Hitler was allowed to live and murder millions for years (presumably because rock and roll wasn't involved)? And yet, you're right. This was a product of their human nature and emotional or psychological needs to find meaning.
Getting back to the karma transfer though, I realize how people could find this idea alluring. I suppose it could be compared to Jesus dying for everyone's sins, so there's no need to worry as long as you believe he's your savior. Both are nice fairy tales in my opinion, and both satisfy a need in the believer. But where Gary is concerned, I was curious if he ever explained, as the "living master", how the concept actually worked. He should know, since he's the one who supposedly makes it happen. "The Divine Science of Light and Sound" is central to the path, but I wondered if Gary ever described any "scientific" aspect of karma and what it consists of in order for it to move from one person to another. I suppose I was just taking it all too literally. You're right, he probably never needed to provide further explanation if he could just manage to convince people that they needed him.
Also, I will just say that my aunt and uncle may have been religious wackos (they're dead now from cancer and heart disease, which apparently aren't caused by any particular musical genre). But at least they didn't charge money and make a living off of other people's trust and admiration. That would be Gary's game.
Back to the subject of one of Olsen's "peers" (in the 'spiritual guru/leader' sense of the word), things ain't going so well for Jimmy Ray...
Self-help guru James Arthur Ray lists Beverly Hills house | L.A. Land | Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2009/11/selfhelp-guru-james-arthur-ray-lists-beverly-hills-house.html - broken link)
Another (former) peer is Marshall Applewhite from Heaven's Gate... a group that was formally against suicide but decided the comet Hale-Bopp was the end of the earth. Interestingly enough, three of the four "cult experts" featured in a recent documentary about Heaven's Gate cult are also publicly known critics of masterpath. Followers of masterpath might say the experts were right about Heaven's Gate- but wrong about masterpath. I don't think so.
Masterpath is a group which is rather small and therefore tends to stay under the radar of mainstream news media. However, this group has garnered the attention of many internationally acclaimed cult experts and is currently regarded as one of the most notorious cults in the western United States.
A sincere thanks to the former masterpath members who have posted in this thread for their insightful contributions. People leave groups like masterpath for many reasons... a backstage pass reveals an emperor with no clothes and long term membership yields absolutely nothing- Besides discarded friends and abandoned relatives.
" People leave groups like masterpath for many reasons... a backstage pass reveals an emperor with no clothes and long term membership yields absolutely nothing- Besides discarded friends and abandoned relatives." -
This says it all! Thank you for your post. Although it took time, in the years since I left, I have made new friends, resumed relationships with a grateful family and carved out a life in which I allow myself to enjoy the world around me. I no longer walk on egg shells, afraid of Gary Olsen or Joy. And though, like many who have left, I endured years of vicious gossip perpetrated by Gary and Joy, in the end their nasty talk of me was more revealing of who and what they are.
Now that's water under the bridge. I post here for the same reason that Deep Cynic does: in the hopes that one might garner the courage to leave the cult, or never get involved in the first place! My hopes for this thread are that it will exceed a hundred pages and serve as a cautionary tale for those who visit...as well as a touch stone of hope for those who want to leave and are trying to find the courage to face themselves, learn to think for themselves, and make the break.
Getting back to the karma transfer though, I realize how people could find this idea alluring. I suppose it could be compared to Jesus dying for everyone's sins, so there's no need to worry as long as you believe he's your savior. Both are nice fairy tales in my opinion, and both satisfy a need in the believer. But where Gary is concerned, I was curious if he ever explained, as the "living master", how the concept actually worked. He should know, since he's the one who supposedly makes it happen. "The Divine Science of Light and Sound" is central to the path, but I wondered if Gary ever described any "scientific" aspect of karma and what it consists of in order for it to move from one person to another. I suppose I was just taking it all too literally. You're right, he probably never needed to provide further explanation if he could just manage to convince people that they needed him.
Also, I will just say that my aunt and uncle may have been religious wackos (they're dead now from cancer and heart disease, which apparently aren't caused by any particular musical genre). But at least they didn't charge money and make a living off of other people's trust and admiration. That would be Gary's game.
I'm not sure this is a "scientific" explanation, but Gary "explains" to seekers and chelas (every meeting) how the "living master" is the essential requirement in order to know your own Self.
He also "explains" that his "Inner Spiritual Form stations Itself at the third eye of the chela" upon receiving the second initiation. Once that "auspicious noumena" occurs, the "Inner Master" assumes responsibility for dispensation of the individual's karma. The "living master" is important because he is the representative of the "inner master" and you recognize the "inner master" because "he looks just like the outer master." Nothing scientific about it. There is no proof or evidence that any of it is true. It is entirely based on what people are willing to believe. At least that is how I see it now. I completely agree with you Violet: our minds and imaginations are powerful tools in creating beliefs.
Over the years, as I grew weary from the labyrinth of double-talk, the lies and manipulation experienced and witnessed, I finally found the internal fortitude and courage to begin questioning the cracks in the shell. I think the most devastating damage done in following a "path" like MP is the self-trust that is lost, and in its place is allegiance and obeisance to the "master." To question the "master or Joy" is to betray the "master." The reason chelas cannot answer any questions on this forum is because they have been well trained to not ask any questions. They have been taught and trained to accept everything they are being taught as the truth. And it is fairly evident that people of all groups will defend what they believe regardless of information to the contrary.
I've heard Gary and Joy tell chelas how the "monthly payment" was a way for the chela to "pay karma" without having to experience it on the physical. Yep, the God that Gary represents has a monetary payment plan for karma...a very cutting edge version of spirituality! Especially since God needs money to enlighten us about our own self. Makes perfect sense.
Of course, according to the "living master Gary": him and Joy are karma-free. So anything they experience is just the "burning of karma for the chelas." Wrong. But alas, they are the darling couple of drama king and queen actors.
I guess the "science" is so "divine" as to be incomprehensible and untestable by us ordinary humans.
Last edited by end_of_faith; 11-08-2009 at 03:39 PM..
I'm not sure this is a "scientific" explanation, but Gary "explains" to seekers and chelas (every meeting) how the "living master" is the essential requirement in order to know your own Self.
He also "explains" that his "Inner Spiritual Form stations Itself at the third eye of the chela" upon receiving the second initiation. Once that "auspicious noumena" occurs, the "Inner Master" assumes responsibility for dispensation of the individual's karma. The "living master" is important because he is the representative of the "inner master" and you recognize the "inner master" because "he looks just like the outer master."
Thanks end_of_faith. So the inner master is basically visualized as the outer master Gary, who somehow gets stationed in the student's third eye at the time of 2nd initiation. But what if Gary doesn't even do the initiation ceremony:
Quote:
Originally Posted by inconsequential Another thing that smelled a bit foul - I had waited two years for the Second Initiation, and when it came, there were maybe twenty of us in the room, and Joy did the ceremony, not Gary! I felt uncomfortable the whole time. And yet, my ego was telling me how spiritual I was, and goaded me on for another three years or so.
Does the karma still get transferred to Gary if his wife is the one who performs the ceremony? WTF? If the "living master" is so important, why can Joy replace him during an important rite (a rite where he is supposedly getting stationed in their third eye and taking responsibility for their karma)? Here's my guess: Joy can do the ceremony whenever "the master" would rather be out on the golf course. If the initiation takes place at 10am and Gary's tee time is at 10am, all the wisdom and power of the one true "living master" get temporarily transferred to his wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by end_of_faith
I've heard Gary and Joy tell chelas how the "monthly payment" was a way for the chela to "pay karma" without having to experience it on the physical. Yep, the God that Gary represents has a monetary payment plan for karma...a very cutting edge version of spirituality! Especially since God needs money to enlighten us about our own self. Makes perfect sense.
Yes, it makes no sense and it's so obviously self-serving that I can't believe people fall for it. It would be one thing if the monthly payment went to making the world a better place, helping the less fortunate, etc. Maybe then an association to karma would seem a little more plausible. But money going into Gary's wallet? Holy smokes.
A number of years ago Olsen had a very kind and generous male chela ( and his wife) that flew Olsen and his wife Joy around in a private plane with no cost to Olsen. Olsen always let it be known that closely serving the "Outer Master" ( AKA him!) was the biggest blessing a chela could experience and that the chela was protected and "covered" meaning that the Sat Guru had the chelas back. This generous pilot died in a crash a year or two later while still shuttling Olsen around for free...and I am sure that Olsen had to serve up a big steaming plate of BS to explain why the pilot was killed while under the "master's" protection. Doesn't the self proclaimed Grand Mufti of the whole universe have the power to prevent the death of his ride?? Guess not
Years before that there was a chela that contracted brain cancer. The chela died pretty quickly from the cancer ( even though he prayed hard to Olsen to take his karma and spare him from death) and I remember how Olsen claimed at a seminar that he had blessed the dead chela with taking on tons of his karma so that he now was residing on an inner plane that was much higher than the chela's "initiation level" at the time. All Sri Goofy had to do was point to his silly "planes chart" and POOF the dead chela was spared lifetimes of karma
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Well Said George!
