Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (paranormal, salvation, Buddhism)

[end_of_faith]

Originally Posted by Still_Kicking

Admittedly I didn’t see the masterpath display every single one of the characteristics but it sure has quite a # of them, at least 70% of the list.

from the list, which 3 don't apply to MP?

[Still_Kicking]

Humor is absolutely critical, something that can be called into question when going through a process such as this.

Thank God he gave me a mind to use for good and not stupidity.

If compromised thinking got me into this mess, then I can sure as s**t get myself out of it. So you might say that I am deconstcructing the house of cards that got built, and pisser is that it was built without my willing consent. Damn "thought reformers".

Kicking them walls down baby!

[Still_Kicking]

Originally Posted by end_of_faith

from the list, which 3 don't apply to MP?

When I originally made the statement I didn't want to come across as being absolutist about it, since that is something that the MP is so good at.

But upon further review I'd say there was only one that I didn't see, it was the "Mileu Control: Control of the environment and communication within the environment."

But hey maybe I was just blind to that issue as well.

[Still_Kicking]

Yeah getting out of the masterpath (MP) and having to move through the despair, depression, PTSD, and a host of other emotional and mental maladies that one can face after leaving something like the MP. But that does change, that is if we're willing to look at the "magical thinking" and assumptions that led us into the morass in the 1st place or that may even still bind us.

We are mentally, emotionally and spiritually stronger than the lies and obfuscation that have been perpetrated against us, and our friends.

There is a real courage that one needs to find for oneself. And if I can find it within myself, so can others. The spiritual / mental fortitude, and a real willingness to accept that we are stronger mentally and emotionally than the assumptions and beliefs that we’ve bought into is key. At least it was for me.

We have to be willing to challenge the underlying assumptions, ½ truths, and circular reasoning that have been presented as the “Truth” of the MP teachings, when you do that you can unlock what has actually kept you in bondage, mentally and emotionally, and I am speaking from my own experience.

Check out the link in Wikipedia to “Magical Thinking”, my suggestion is to read the entire page and then compare that to your own experience and you are very likely going to see how Gary and the MP leverage’s this tactic to serve its own end.

I am including the 1st part of the definition here to prompt readers to dig in deeper and investigate for themselves.

“Magical thinking is causal reasoning that often includes such ideas as the ability of the mind to affect the physical world (see the philosophical problem of mental causation), and correlation mistaken for causation.

Associative thinking may be brought into play, as well as the power of magical symbols (e.g. Gary’s image, chanting “Garji” or “Hu”), metaphor (e.g. often used erroneously by Gary to explain things) and metonym, and synchronicity (e.g. something happening because you said it, feared it or believed it – something that the MP uses to say that you create your own reality). Since, in both theory and practice, magic does not conform to modern canons of causality, it is therefore appropriate to ask if it is rational to practice or believe in magic. For most theorists, these questions turn on the matter of the practitioner’s thought processes, intentions, and the efficacy of their practice.”

If you disagree, please comment and let us know if you come to some other conclusion than what I’ve come to.

All the best.

[Violet11]

As has been discussed here before, maybe another example of "magical thinking" in MasterPath is this notion that Gary Olsen can magically take on the karma of others. As if karma itself is a given, and he has the power to control and maneuver it.

People in MP come from all different religious backgrounds I'm sure, but maybe one thing they have in common is the deep desire for spiritual life and the openness to ideas that are not "mainstream".

This kind of open-mindedness is admirable. When someone like Gary comes along however, the very same thought processes people have used to critique mainstream religion could be applied - if a person remained truly "open" that is.

"Jesus is dead, Christianity is a cult because it is worshipping a dead man." Okay, fine. How is MasterPath different? "I, the master, am alive and therefore superior in guiding you." So what can I do to experience God? "You can trust in me as your master and free yourself from the prison of your lower mind." How can I do that? "Don't worry, I'll tell you when it's your lower mind speaking to you and when it's the correct mind." Awesome, thanks! Where can I sign?

Obviously I'm way over-simplifying how one could avoid questioning and discrediting MasterPath the way they might have with other paths. If friends or family members are involved in the path, and everyone you meet in MP is wonderful, I would imagine it all becomes easier to swallow. But some former MP members have shared here that when they began to really question things using the great minds God gave them, they discovered a false master.

So I just wonder about statements like Peacemaker21 made awhile back that "When you SEE truth, you KNOW truth". Yep, me too. And schizophrenics KNOW with 100% certainty that the helicopter in the sky is watching them and that the mailman is trying to poison them, and little kids KNOW there is a Santa.

[PeaceMaker21]

Hi @Violet11, @End_of_Faith and everyone again.

The holiday season is fast approaching and I've found a little more time on my hands again to respond once more to earlier remarks since I last posted back in November, and I have also been really interested by the latest postings from @Still_Kicking - thank you for sharing your experiences as a chela (and also now as an ex-chela) with far more lucidity than I have been able to convey so far - I guess I am "still kicking" too, kicking the tyres of this MP vehicle I have entrusted to take me safely to my destination, and at the same time am interested in breaking down walls and barriers too, and in getting to universal truth - whatever that may turn out to be....

I felt drawn to elaborate on what seemed like quite a crass remark I made in one of my early postings, which @EOF and @Violet have quoted me on twice now: namely "when you SEE truth you KNOW truth" - I admit the remark I made didn't really help convey my experience of walking the MP very helpfully at all - in my early posts I guess I was trying out different personas including, quite precociously "The Diplomat" hence my rather arrogant-sounding choice of moniker, then a little later: the playful, coy, persona, demonstrated by my inadequately explored "see truth, know truth" remark followed pretty-much by my "stunned silence, red-flags rising" persona in the wake of the tragic news about Doug and Francisco.

As I mentioned in my last post, despite the understandable occasional sarcasm and earlier flame wars that sprung up e.g. during the "Allan-days" on this thread, I don't think that chelas such as me, who have posted here, are in total opposition to or enemies of the ex-chelas and other posters on this thread - we all have valid experiences which we are bringing to this table, and I for one, want the whole truth to be revealed and to be made sense of.

I respect all experiences in equal regard to my 14 years (with break) on MP, as equally valid, and of late, I have found it better to "watch and learn" rather than comment about things of which I have no direct knowledge, such as the experiences of @EOF and @RememberingYou who have visited the residence / retreat referred to earlier.



To return for a moment to my "see truth, know truth" remark, I feel I ought to elaborate on this as a reference to "inner senses and inner sensations: of harmony, peace, love, bliss and ecstasy" brought about through practicing spiritual exercises such as:

1. subjective meditation aka "subtle contemplation" in MPP: (MasterPath Parlance)
2. objective self-examination (MPP: "gross contemplation")
3. practicing Conscious Mindfulness during daily living (MPP: "practising the presence (of Inner Spirit)")
4. and, yes, physical MP events such as Darshan with Sri Gary and attending seminar (online or in person) which too bring me similar "good vibrations". :-)

If you've ever felt your mind sparkle and flow with a stream of exciting ideas and "good energy" be it alone, meditating, or when chatting with friends, reading a book, interacting on this Forum Thread...! ;-) ...perhaps you can relate to the kind of "peak experiences" I am trying to convey as of the type: "seeing truth, knowing truth": it's like an orgasmic explosion of good-feelings and love, all taking place while totally sober and straight (not substance-induced) and accompanied by a great sense of inner peace: no paranoia, no "somebody's watching me from helicopters in the sky" - "Truth is Love, and Love is the Divine Truth" - I guess that how some mystics in the past have put it, and in MPP they call it "being in the flow (of the shabda)" - I've experienced "not being in the flow" too and boy does that suck - but the great thing is indeed, that this flow is accessible within our own consciousness at all times.

So...why is this Gary guy needed at all...? Well, his entire reputation is staked on his ability to manifest in the third eye of a student or seeker when our attention is centered at this point - between the two eyebrows (hence why some psychically-developed chelas have experienced visions of Garji in the Astral or Dream Awareness state before ever physically meeting Gary in person).

As @jay-cos pointed out in October...

Originally Posted by jay-cos

If you are going to disprove Sri Gary provide facts about the inability of the Guru to provide expansion of spiritual consciousness and growth. So far from my observations that has not been proven...

...the "litmus test" of gary olsen's authenticity as a sat guru should be this ability to manifest in the levels and states of consciousness beyond the physical dimension - the "science" behind this ability (for those interested) apparently relies on "morphogenetic fields" and "morphic resonance" - I believe Dennis Holtje once referred to the research of the British microbiologist Rupert Sheldrake.

So anyway, that's all I wanted to say for now on what I meant by "seeing is knowing" - if other chelas / ex-chelas have other or similar understandings e.g. @BeenThereDoneThat's

Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneThat09

"Radiant Ford"

hypothesis in October - which I found very intriguing, please do continue to share....

I'll only see/know this to be true or not when I "open my third-eye" - which is the major focus in my life aside from work and family duties (and to a lesser or greater extent I believe this is the objective of every other chela on MP who has yet to get-open and keep-open their third-eye, and to gain their "third-knowingness" as it were: when we see, we'll know!

So...in summary...

Outer Master...? Sri Gary...? irregularities...? Let the tax-man decide!

Inner Master...? Gar-ji...? Let our third-eyes decide... :-)

May the miracle-virgin-birth of third-eye-sight be granted to all fellow seekers and friends experiencing labor pains...I feel them (subjectively) in me too...

Peace and love

- PM21 aka The Optimystik Mysfitt - am I allowed to "retire" PM21 and reinkarn8 Eye Wonder....?

PS - @Violet thanks too for your DM to me back in November - your analogy of the guru-student bond as a "love-affair" is very true to my experience - still in the "eyes open but in-love phase" - more on this later perhaps...

[end_of_faith]

Peacemaker,

What kind of scientist are you? Specialized field of study or practice?

[Violet11]

Hi Peacemaker. For the record, the words "guru-student bond" and "love affair" are not part of my vernacular, so I feel a little misquoted in your last sentence there. What you're referring to is my reply to your direct message about the returned Gary gift. Just to clarify in my own words for others reading, what I wrote was along the lines of not being in a position to know the experience of leaving MasterPath, but imagining (as a reference point in my own life) that I could loosely compare it to falling in love and then discovering the person is not who they said they were. Being convinced and then having that "truth" shattered. Something like that.

Anyway, on the subject of Gary's ability to "provide expansion of spiritual consciousness and growth", I'm obviously not the best person to answer. But my point to you was, is, and has always been that whatever spiritual fruits you are reaping from MasterPath, they are fruits of your own labor and not Gary's.

I do not believe he can morphogenetically transport himself into your psyche. He's already there, just as all of your experiences are. Your meditations and spiritual exercises will naturally bring you "peak experiences", and if they are generally focused on your guru, he will be showing up one way or another.

And yes, I would guess lots of people have had those same experiences of the mind sparkling and flowing with an explosion of love and sense of inner peace. Myself included. I understand the flow you are speaking about, a vibration or hum you feel, a "pull" of sorts in the middle of your forehead. Because I experience it too. And I don't have a guru.

That feeling is something I personally interpret as connecting with - I don't know, the essence that is "God" I guess - because I don't have a better explanation. But there's no "living master" involved, I can assure you of that.

How about this for a litmus test...whenever Gary appears at your opened third eye, you should give him a code word. Tell him to relay the code word back to you when you see him in person at the satsang. Make sure you don't give him any hints. Then if he gets it right, contact the James Randi Foundation and try for the million dollars.

[Still_Kicking]

@Violet11, thank you for your comments.

Yes there are a lot of nice, good and sincere folks on the MP, in fact the only one that I would take issue with because of my experience with is Gary. Joy and Dennis were neutral to me as far as my interaction with them was concerned. Others may likely have different comments about them.

The whole thing of Gary's ability to take on one's karma and remove it, lessen it, etc... is exactly one of those "magical thinking" examples that I was thinking of, not just my own "karma", but others that I have know/known on the MP. This ability is particularly suspect in the case of the chela being murdered by another chela. However not so for current chelas, I recently spoke to one about this murder, no they hadn't heard of it, and they tried explaining it like this..."well likely there was a lesson for both of them in this". Which I responded back with "not for the chap who got murdered", for which the chela then responded with..."they got the lesson it was just given to them as they translated, or likely will be reviewed with the inner master. --This is a closed system of reasoning, anything that doesn't fit falls into the category of a "needed lesson" whether in this life, the after life or the next life. In the end that chela had no issue with it, which I thought wow, incredulously.


Yes I would say, without too much reservation, that a common attraction for many to the MP is being able to connect with a deeper spiritual sense of who they are let alone some of the more outlandish. The open-mindedness is something that Gary asks for up front, but then again that is one of the hallmarks of a cult, they ask for something that is inconsequential at first, but then once you're in, the demands on your time and energy become greater. And by that time you've forgotten about the early reservations and doubts you had, but be advised they are sitting there in the background, and your mind and emotions will suffer for it, as they always do according to Gary. -- Doesn't strike me as a very balanced approach or path, despite what Gary may say.

The open-mindedness is the key here though, since if you start to question things, then you get the slap down of, you are obviously more interested in being attached to the ego/mind, egotistical, lacking in sincerity, or lacking in open-mindedness, either way any critical questions are smacked down. So no real, deep discourse actually takes place, again your reservations, questions and issues are supposed to be put on a shelf, (the real source of one's anger) or brought in and asked of the inner master. Which I did and guess what no bloody answer there either. But these are how cults work their mind control / thought reform activities on unsuspecting folks.

Mrs. Tobias said it best, and I'm going to paraphrase here, "isn't it nice to have someone who will carry your woes and ills in life. Who will protect you, etc..."
-- This is all of course very balming to one when all you have to do is "go in", turn off your thinking and let go of the concern or worry to this inner master. So this becomes your stress management tool, and now that you've left the MP you don't have that, and anxiety, fear once again visit your doorstep. --This method proposed by Gary isn't the only stress reduction technique that is out there, that doesn't have the effect of shutting down your cognitive functioning capabilities and crippling you as it did to me, and likely affects others as well.

This is life, it is tough sometimes, things don't go your way, they sure didn't in my life, but it wasn't because I wasn't doing what I needed to be doing spiritually. As they say, sh*t happens, sometimes you got to take steps to calm yourself down and manage the situation as best you can.

I don't propose to have any answers to all of the challenges per se, I'm still working on this as much as the next person is, (I do know that there are techniques for managing the stress - I personally like the 3 breaths & then speaking the words 'calm' to yourself, it works for me).

But I do know this much, if the impact and or effect of being on the MP, or taking instruction from Gary has such a negative effect on me, and from what I can tell quite a few others, then it is at the very least empirical evidence to kick this crap to the curb and get on with living life and stop making excuses and being so emotional about it. --If anything I found a greater emotional strength in spite of the MP, not because of it, and if I can, then others can too.

Yep its a let down, or even a series of hard let downs, M. Tobias says as much in her video, this stuff infects your emotional and spiritual life. For me I really thought that this was possibly "it" in the early days, "what I had been seeking all my life but didn't know that I was looking for it". But I realize now that I was merely tapping into that desire to have the burdens of my life lifted from me, without taking full responsibility, at least on some level, which any normal person would want. I mean who wouldn't want that?

But to take advantage of that typical innate desire of most humans and exploit that for their own ends is going too far. When I see TRUTH, I know TRUTH...damn right mate.

[Still_Kicking]

Peacemaker21,

If you envisage someone's image long enough, you too will likely dream of them. I had this experience on quite a few occasions with Gary's likeness when I was dreaming after going to bed. They were for the most part nonsensical to me, however in all fairness the only one that I did have where I could fully understand what it meant I used for advantage and it did help me. -- However I've paid for that in my own experience and my sending in $30/month didn't lessen the emotional, mental and financial distress for the benefit derived.

I do want to be clear there were some of what Gary says that is good, and helpful but amongst all of the other contradictory, circular reasoning, put-downs, etc..to keep people in control well that is just it, I do demand more from a god-man.