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I feel more happy, at peace, and secure in finding my own spiritual needs and answerd questions since leaving the path. Much more so than when I was struggling with the self doubts and illusions cast by a charlatan.
I feel more happy, at peace, and secure in finding my own spiritual needs and answered questions since leaving the path. Much more so than when I was struggling with the self doubts and illusions cast by a charlatan.
Thanks for that Xanadau.
Current chelas; listen to someone who has been where you are now, and moved on. You will need to become conscious of the truth and become "Self-Realized," to know without doubt, that you no longer need a "guru" to dictate your reality for you. Once you have "emerged" and consolidated yourself "outside" of the Master, that will all become abundantly clear "as the light of day" to you. Your only regret being: that you did not appreciate it so much sooner!
A pointless exercise called: "Responding to Allan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
The specific use that I quoted said nothing less then I/chelas do not think - we do no longer make Informed Decisions
There are other examples - though for time sake focusing on this one example is enough.
Examples of MasterPath students averting informed decision making can be found in all of the previously mentioned characteristics of robot-ism. To review, this includes (but is not limited to!) :
1) MP-speak such as repeating MasterPath words and phrases on an annoyingly frequent basis. This is a symptom of losing your individual identity, and finding greater value in the language of the group consciousness than your own.
2) Circular logic where independent opinions, decisions and thought processes are unwelcome and do not factor in. The “decision” to question is not an option. The answer to every possible question comes back to supporting the dogma.
3) Toeing the line of the “path”. Moving closer to fellow chelas and further away from non-chelas. No room in your hard drive for human compassion, and no room for humanitarianism – after all, your “master” thinks it’s stupid to care about your fellow humans!
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
Is there any 'proof' that I do not 'think' or make Informed Decisions? All that is offered is that I have chosen a guru lead path.
You seem pretty focused on bringing it all back to “guru led paths”. If you're hoping that calling it a “guru led path” lends it some sort of credibility, it doesn’t. We are not here to discuss “guru led paths”, this is about Gary Olsen’s MasterPath. And Gary is not a guru in the eyes of most sane people, so that sort of distinction is moot. If you want to debate about every other guru and whether they’re real, you should start another thread. This one's about YOUR sparkly "guru" fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
What I foind here is that at the same time I am personally experiencing more thought, more observations of my thoughts, more probing into where my thoughts are coming from, sponsored by - at the same time that is going on there you folks claiming as fact that I am doing the exact opposite.
Isn’t it funny how our minds can play tricks on us? Whatever amazing thoughts and observations you are touting as evidence of not being a robot are probably just mandatory part and parcel of the robotification process. See “brainwashing”. You’re just cleaning house. Getting ready for the big magic moustache moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
And again, people seem to have no compulsion to throwing words like programmed around - as if they are fact.
And your basic proof for these facts seems to boil down to the simple fact that we do not agree with you - does it not.
Um, no. A thousand times NO. I doubt most of us care if you agree with us or not. The programmed mindset we are observing through chelas' words here is part of our “proof”. I’ll say it again: you will not see it, Allan, because you are in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
Perhaps you don't see these obvious contradictory behaviors because you are in it - as you say. Being blinded to ones own issues is quite common among us humans - it is not a behavior of MP chelas only.
Check it out Allan, we live in the part of the universe that sees infinitely, experiences all, makes things happen, etc. YOU on the other hand live in an alternate reality where a moron named Gary Olsen is God and he is the authority on what should be seen and not seen, read and not read, believed and not believed. There’s no comparing our worlds.
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Originally Posted by allan1015
"life is shabda, shabda is life"
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
That is a pretty profound teaching, it impacted me greatly - its is a fundamental reasons why I don't understand how people blame MP for pulling them out of their life, away from their family, work, etc.
Yet as profound or insightful and useful as I find it - you see it was circular logic and pablum.
If “life is shabda, shabda is life” is what passes as "a pretty profound teaching" for you, I’m wondering if you’ve read many books. Emerson and Thoreau? Plato? Lin Yutang? Did you ever see “Free To Be, You And Me”?
No, I’m not saying “Free To Be” is profound per se. But I saw it in elementary school and began seeing that life is "shabda" and "shabda" is life back then, even though I didn’t use that word for it – nor did I think there could BE any word for it.
Where did you start and what's been happening all your life that you are finding this profound now at what, age 50 or so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
It is this kind of closed mindedness, this kind of black and white and unacceptance, demeaning of others that you don't understand that makes me see this thread in a very different light then you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan1015
You tout this as something new and great that prior MP or in fact any Guru students didn't have - all hail the internet as it opens up the doors of information, facts, etc - and there is truth in that view, lots of it. But there there is also truth that the facts of this thread, the behavior, the yes Ill say it bigoted behavior - those all point to a darker aspect of this information - the ability of one group to distort, dis-inform, bias, to stifle conversations and information other then their own, to in effect block religious freedom. That has happen here as well.
You should really see someone, Allan. People aren't distorting or disinforming, they are sharing real life experiences, facts, and opinions.
There is nothing close-minded about the people here, particularly those WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE MASTERPATH LIKE YOU!! How could they be close minded if they were once on your "path"?
And even those of us who were never MP chelas, we've all opened our minds to plenty of spiritual ideas/practices that aren't mainstream at one time or another in our lives. Many of us currently have spiritual views that would probably be considered pretty “out there” by most.
You really don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
I see now that this is for you about winning, about being right, about retribution and justice. I wondered why you were asking me if it was about winning – it is – for you. And your long posts delving into my anger, again such anger can also be claimed by you. I wonder how many of the other things you directed at me are really coming from inside you?
It appears simply that you’re on a Jihad to destroy something I love, that I respect, increasingly and in some use of the word, love a man that you revile and feel is evil incarnate. Therefore you must paint me with the same brush, or at least dismiss my intelligence, ability to think, my way of posting, of talking, etc etc etc. It would not fit your worldview, be counter to your goal of Destruction if I was a normal human being, faulted as you are, intelligent, able to think for myself, etc No for you we all must be desperate robots in need of love and validation, or worse accomplices, I get it.
For me this isn’t about destruction, I’m not trying to wipe out anyone or any viewpoint. No wonder you feel I am ‘defending’ because you see this all as a war and some form of attack. For me it is more simply about presenting my view and to some degree a bit of intellectual stimulation. This is apparently very personal for you, for me its not personal. You are attached to the results so to speak, I am not.
(I am using You – as a broad way to describe you and others like you)
It seems You cant grasp how I could disagree with your Jihad, your position , you facts and still be a normal, functioning, balanced individual.
I can listen to the bird flu lecture, and while I find it least interesting of most lectures, I don’t come away with the same passion, don’t see it as mean, evil, and flat out ridiculous as you. I can even ‘set it aside’ as something questionable, something I just don’t get yet, that I don’t have perspective on, and still continue with MP and my studies.
I can hear your pain of you ex-chelas – I can hear you say that Gary said mean things, nasty things, and still love and respect him as a teacher.
From your view it seems I cant do any of these things without being a pretty F* up person, cold, blind, brain dead, a love starve sycophant who is either in league with the devil or a flawed human.
More to the point is that any attempt to explain how and why is meat with vile, hard, uncompromising resistance. Anything that may add some rationality, explanation – anything that would detract from your Jihad cannot be, must not be tolerated, at least it seems that way to me.
There are at least two broad categories of reasons that allow me to come to different conclusions then you. I’m going to go ahead and outline them here, knowing that in all likelihood not one word will come through and I will continue to be attacked instead.
Your Credibility
I don’t want to say you lie, I don’t think its intentional, but there are many many statements made here that are direct opposites from my experience and understanding. At the same time I am experience increased insight into my feelings, behavior, examining where my thoughts and beliefs are coming from, a dramatic increase in awareness, thought and discrimination – you state as fact, in multiple ways that I am brain dead, unthinking, incapable of informed decisions and discrimination.
As another example, while I am learning to monitor and change the subjective dialog – my habit of beating on myself, limiting myself, feeling unworthy in life – I am finding a perspective that is empowering, I am just learning to monitor and change this internal voice, I am basically feeling the complete opposite of being unworthy, a worm, a **** head – yet at the same time You post as fact that MP makes one feel put down, worthless, subjugated, etc.
As a last and different type of example of why I don’t feel you as credible, I find your post are full of conjecture that is presented as fact. For example, you said something akin to - “Gary smokes pot to alleviate his guilt.” Even if we establish Gary has smoked pot, how do you know he does such to alleviate and block feelings of quilt? You don’t, you cant. This is one trivial example of a consistent practice here. It goes to credibility and bias and stuff like that. Attempts to question or point out these issues are meet with strong resistance, usually quickly degrade into personal attacks, again nothing that helps you to seem credible.
So my doubts about the veracity, the source of the facts presented here is in question and one of the reasons I don’t reach the same conclusions as you. This si no saying your lie or are not credible to others, I am just explaining my view.
Differences in Belief Systems
A great deal of what underpins your conclusions and position is your own belief systems. Take as example the issue of money and true masters and all that. I have a different view, I can explain my view but its not interesting to anyone here, the point is that its no more valid then yours, but neither is yours any more valid then mine. The differences belief systems is all over the place – can Gurus seem mean, are Gurus ‘needed’, is there a God in the first place - on and on and on. I find a great deal of energy goes into discounting, usually via insults not discussion, any beliefs I have that differ.
In the same vein, we don’t have the same beliefs because many of you, not the ex chelas obviously, haven’t studied the same material. It is hard, if not impossible to explain my perspective to those who aren’t interested – and in fact are vehemently opposed to listening. This is your choice of course, I’m not faulting you for these differences in beliefs, just pointing out how such is an impediment to truth.
Lastly, to the ex-chelas
I can find it perfectly reasonable that there are ex-chelas, that people upon leaving feel hurt, have pain. I find that all perfectly normal and not indicative of a core flaw or a corrupted path. To be honest so far I’ve seen no more pain then getting over a lost love, hurt, rejected, hate for the other, etc. Does that make me callous or just a realist? No I don’t agree that an ex-chela is honest, open, a beacon of truth. You could be, but you could also be many other things – looking to blame another, unstable, etc. Not to say you are but there is no way I can honestly say your not. Ex-chelas need a hefty grain of salt.
In the end I don’t know where I will go from here. The bulk of people here are interested in a one sided conversation – actually interested in destruction of MP at all costs. I may find it still interesting to respond here, I may not – I wont let it unbalance my life and certainly not let it take me off whats important in my life.
You really don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
I guess that says it all.
To be honest, Violet your post shows you to be pretty ignorant yourself. I cant even get past your first bullet without seeing your lack of knowledge of what your talking about.
Quote:
1) MP-speak such as repeating MasterPath words and phrases on an annoyingly frequent basis. This is a symptom of losing your individual identity, and finding greater value in the language of the group consciousness than your own.
Simran is not that at all, it is a beautiful, effective and fundamental practice. Your statement is just totally off base, period. The fact that your still so ignorant on such a fundamental practice is telling of your lack of concern for truth.
Quote:
We are not here to discuss “guru led paths”, this is about Gary Olsen’s MasterPath.
Simran is a fundamental practice of many paths - certainly not specific to MP or Sri Gary. You obviously want to strike out at general practices of hundreds of thousands of people and multiple paths, yet in the same breath claim you are focused on MP only - is this not hypocritical, or a lie?
This clearly speaks to my previous and ongoing point - the bulk of issues here are not about MP, this about forcing your broad religious and spiritual beliefs on others. Its about one beleif system over another - not all of it, but so much of it that it is hard to parse the issues out.
Please explain to me hwo you can attack a general practice such as Simran and yet claim it is an MP specific issue? I find it inconsistant
Quote:
How could they be close minded if they were once on your "path"?
I started asking myself," why would I pay money to be yelled at and degraded, sometimes to the point of tears and call this a religious experience?".
That is interesting, I've not had it happen to me yet so its hard to say how I would feel. I could take it very personal, it might **** me off to the degree I leave.
I would ask who was degraded, yelled at?
If I was not attached to the personality aspect of self, would I care as much? Wouldn't the degree of reaction we have to this be reflective to the degree of attachment we have to personality?
If I was centered, aware of my true self, the God, the being of incomprehensible breath, immortal - if I as aware of that would I react to this as strongly as I would if I was only aware of myself as allan?
As I said, i don't know but this is interesting. Perhaps I will be fortunate to be berated this upcoming Satsang, fortunate in that I can experience this directly, as you did, instead of speculating
To be clear about my intent.... I do not wish nor seek the destruction of anyone or anything! The truth I know is simple and straightforward.... He is not a true Sat Guru.
He has failed on every level with many people in manifesting his efficacy. No amount of words or proof will ever be enough to convince another who is fully enamored with their belief system that the system/leader is false. That's the way of the world. So be it.
and a brief response to the pages that have been written here over the last few days....
Gary may not feel guilt for smoking pot.... but I know "chelas" who have experienced major guilt trips and self-judgment for smoking pot because they believe he doesn't.... smoke that!
Last edited by end_of_faith; 09-17-2010 at 07:05 PM..
I do not care anymore, agape is not my path, but I have been very clear about that for a very long time. And I certainly have no need to justify anything to anyone, let alone a MP chela, since they support and defend a criminal enterprise, period.
Call it a Jihad, Holy War or what ever, it is irrelevant to me, the MP and Gary Olsen steals people's lives and their money, and I know that to be a truth. Hence my justification and validation to do as I do.
I also see the way you attack ex-chelas with double speak, just like your master, you don't see it, but I do.
May God have mercy on your soul.
Last edited by Still_Kicking; 09-17-2010 at 07:06 PM..
Reason: Sinking it home
To be clear.... I do not wish nor seek the destruction of anyone or anything!
and just a brief response to the endless words that have been written here over the last few days....
Gary may not feel guilt for smoking pot.... but I know "chelas" who have gone through major guilt trips and self-judgment for smoking pot because they believe he doesn't.... smoke that!
Hi,
I agree not everyone here is seeking destruction
Already the 'endless words' phrasing
On Guilt Trips and Self-Judgment
I do that to myself, I thought everyone did, or most
Some of us are quite adapt at punishing ourselves
So to be clear someone smoked pot and felt they had betrayed what they were instructed to do? or they felt they were not in Sri Gary's image - feeling impure and quilted out on that? Was this a debilitating guilt? I mean for you to point it out I guess it has to be extreme?
I think its fair to try and understand the context of this experience if we can.
The teaching I know does not demand a cessation of smoking pot, nor a vow to do so, nor a teaching to emulate my guess of Sri Gary's behaviors and life style.
So I am not in step with you on the reason for a heavy guilt and self-judgment experience from it.
But I am young at this, perhaps there is a teaching to come.
If there was some point where i wasn't supposed to ask these question and just feel bad for the folks and see this as some injustice - I missed it, I cant, well don't feel that way just on the merits of what you wrote. perhaps with a better picture I will
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Keep up the fire sister
Thanks for that Xanadau.
