Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (abortion, salvation, church)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by allan1015

Anyway, this all sound very loosey goosy to me, where is it coming from? where is this rule book about money and payment, and exchange between people that some is bad/not real and some is good/real?

It comes from true spiritual enlightenment . . . which your "master" cannot possibly have achieved. You could never exploit true enlightenment . . . if you have truly experienced it . . . just to earn a living. Your desire to share would be completely unrelated to how you earn your living (which is a worldly concern . . . not spiritual). Spiritual development has nothing to do with worldly achievements . . . and sharing it would be unencumbered. That neither you nor your chosen "master" seem to know this . . . indicates that there is nothing spiritual involved . . . it is all worldly and fraudulent.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by end_of_faith

where's the proof? Allan, that question is for you. Do you know this "guarantee" to be a FACT? Or, is it FAITH and BELIEF that people are banking on?

How could it be anything other then faith, provisional faith for some, blind faith for others, but faith none the less? I guess at some point of enlightenment, some level of conscious it might be revealed/experienced as a fact. Not for me yet.

Btw, Allan, where's your proof that he is a sat guru? You offer nothing to prove or show that he is. Not even a description of what you think it means.

I have no proof, I cant, not never will be able to offer such proof. It is for one something that is internal and personal. I guess it is a matter of provisional faith for some, until its not.

I do believe there were discussion a year ago on the topic of how one can tell for sure, nothing was offered as conclusive. What would a Sat Guru look like? or an enlightened person? Can we recognize them?

And like others on this thread, I have no fear of death or the afterlife, or the "the Lord of Death."

I like to think I don't either, but to be honest I don't think any of really know until we are staring it in the face.

Any reasonable and clear thinking person can see that MP is a farce.

Reasonable and clear thinking people can find MP and Sri Gary to be a wonderful experience, can change their lives, etc etc.

Now how is it there is more truth in your version then mine?
They both support our individual beliefs.

I could do this as well
unreasonable and befuddled people can find MP to be a farce
unreasonable and befuddled people can find MP not to be a farce

All four version are equally valid - you just think the one that supports you is the only and right one.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It comes from true spiritual enlightenment . . . which your "master" cannot possibly have achieved. You could never exploit true enlightenment . . . if you have truly experienced it . . . just to earn a living. Your desire to share would be completely unrelated to how you earn your living (which is a worldly concern . . . not spiritual). Spiritual development has nothing to do with worldly achievements . . . and sharing it would be unencumbered. That neither you nor your chosen "master" seem to know this . . . indicates that there is nothing spiritual involved . . . it is all worldly and fraudulent.

Mystic,

I am overwhelmed, to many of you and to few of me

All I am hearing from you is that
if you pay for it, it is not real
why?
if it was real you wouldn't have to pay


I get the part about how someone having some sort of blissful experience would want to share it with everyone

But the rest is just, to me, more jumbled opinion and your personal beliefs about how things 'work'

My beliefs are that times are different, that its no longer the guru on the mountain top, its now husband, with wife and kids, its no longer sitting under a tree listening to your guru, its infrastructure and technology, its hotels and planes and office workers, publishing costs, etc.

So, again for me, I don't see anyway around the notion of money being part of the picture, just cant see it. To me your ideas are romantic and I guess antiquated. No insult intended just how I see it.


And please lets not go down the road about each line item, olive trees are not spiritual, but media servers for video broadcasting are ok, none of that is about the primary issue of money and payment being a sign of a true path or not. I mean lets at least get closure on that one thing first.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by Still_Kicking

I have seen Gary Olsen use all 6 of these weapons of influence on his chelas.

Ive seen the same in high school football, in the navy. Anyone with any credible AntiCult knowledge would know that you cant go: "see that was controlling behavior - viola proof its a destructive cult". Red Flags are best indicators and in no way can be conclusive.

Secondly your not a credible source of interpretation, for me at least - your out for the Destruction of MP, your vested in the outcome.

Oh, but the way, which professional anti-cult person has documented and declared MP/Sri Gary as a destructive cult?

I wonder how his chelas would really feel if they actually knew that they were having a war waged against their own minds and actually were aware of it? And that there own master was waging that war on them? And that their own master intended from the beginning to make them slaves to paying his bills for his lifestyle.

In Honest English this would be more like:
"I wonder how his chelas would really feel if it was actually true and proven that they were having a war waged against their own minds ... "

You seem to have this habit of asking questions that support your predetermined conclusion, as if your conclusion were fact, true. Whats that about?

Oh, we know that our dues support Gary's, Joys and their children living and lifestyle, power to them.

And he uses these techniques on people that he out-right says that he loves.

translates in honest speak to:
"And if he did use such techniques on people he says he loves - that would be baloney."

Borrowing from you a bit:
"I thank god that I am the cantankerous, argumentative SOB that I've always been, that doesn't accept the status quo and just accept what people say to me." - such as the people and arguments presented here"

Allan doesn't challenge his own program or his own thoughts, he thinks they are right (ego) since he was told that by Gary, clearly.

In honest english that would be:
Its appears to me, that Allan doesn't challenge his own program or his own thoughts- though I don't really know the guy and only have this small slice into him, and if he did have some challenging and independent thought, it really wouldn't fit my agenda so we'll just waive our hands on this one.

He is only defending, justifying and rationalizing the program that he has put into the tape deck of his head (instead of what is effective). Hence why I don't disagree with you about it being a waste of time on Allan.

Translates to
Its actually important to my agenda that we dehumanize Allan and paint him as much of a robot as possible. Not only does that take away any actual points he may have, it makes it easier on us to dismiss him and not interface with him in any substantive way.

PM21 has hope, but as of yet he hasn't answered reasonable questions put to him

Lie

[allan1015]

Obviously "dependent" can be a subjective term, but really ANYONE who feels the need or desire to use drugs and alcohol could be considered "dependent", no matter how often and how much they partake.

'Could be considerd depenendent" - in your world where it support syour position I guess. Not in my world, which involves living with an alcoholic wife for 15 years and supporting her recovery for the past 12 or so. Only to say I've some experience on addiction and dependency. So stretching the dependency to mean any use what so ever is way out of normal and not really going to fly. The right use of the word in this case is more like addicted.

So again, there is no Vow of chasity or absence, so to speak. and my tapes basically say, put the Master first, do my spiritual exercises, my practice first, then light up. Actually, after I light up, bring the Master into that as well, no need to feel its shameful activity, one can practice presence doing anything. What one wants to avoid is to only learn how to connect, center, practice presence while high, its not sustainable and when you don't have the drug, you find you have to start all over to learn the connection thing.

And I'd just like to add that you are sounding really zombified. You're admitting that everything Gary does is excusable in your eyes, because you're assuming there must be some higher meaning you can't yet understand. Holy blinders! And you don't see that as precisely how a cult member thinks?! You have given up thinking for yourself and using your own moral compass.

I understand that is an interpretation, and even a possibility. I understand your on the outside making judgments based on words. I understand I am on th inside walking this, making decisions and discriminating whats important to me.

But I also see you twisting my words, - I never 'admitted that everything gary does is excusable' - if I did please show me where. Otherwise I see this as your belief, not mine. What I said was closer to my boundaries (of acceptable) are different then yours.

I said I was able to find provisional faith, your telling me I am showing blind faith. Is this point clear now? will you stop putting words in my mouth?

We already know that your definition of "friend" is a little skewed to begin with.

You do? how? You don't find that a little nasty? Even insulting to people you don't know? Disengenous question as you really weren't looking for an answer, as the question was just a setup for a poke in the eye.

How could they possibly support MP?

Did I say they did? They support me, they have counseled me, we have discussed what I am doing, what I am being instructed to do, etc etc. And we discuss other cults and other things in the field. I didn't go into this blindly.

[Still_Kicking]

Originally Posted by allan1015

Ive seen the same in high school football, in the navy. Anyone with any credible AntiCult knowledge would know that you cant go: "see that was controlling behavior - viola proof its a destructive cult". Red Flags are best indicators and in no way can be conclusive.

Secondly your not a credible source of interpretation, for me at least - your out for the Destruction of MP, your vested in the outcome.

Oh, but the way, which professional anti-cult person has documented and declared MP/Sri Gary as a destructive cult?

1. this thread provides the proof that it is a destructive cult, not as bad some, I'll give you that, but a cult nonetheless

2. Because I see it as destructive, I give it what it creates, something of it's own, it is karma, what you put out, you get back. Not vested though just a participant.

3. Oh let's see Rick Ross for one, and then there is the reports that come from those who are from within the MP.

Originally Posted by allan1015

In Honest English this would be more like:
"I wonder how his chelas would really feel if it was actually true and proven that they were having a war waged against their own minds ... "

You seem to have this habit of asking questions that support your predetermined conclusion, as if your conclusion were fact, true. Whats that about?

Boy Allan let me ask you something, what is truth? How do you determine a truth? I consider one aspect to be facts to be a determinant of truth.

For me at least I had accepted some things about the MP, on provisional faith if you will. Then I found out that they were not based off of truth, but beliefs that were part of someone's program. When I scientifically validated that what was being presented by the MP as a hypothesis and determined from repeated experiments that the presuppositions of the MP and Gary Olsen were not held to be accurate, hence factual, that I no longer believed in it, or him.

But I did the work, you haven't, you still don't, you just accept. Bully for you old boy, I wonder how much $ you make defending the MP and Gary Olsen, or is there a better more fruitful way to spend your time?

Or do you need further proof on what the scientific method is, or how to use it?

Originally Posted by allan1015

Oh, we know that our dues support Gary's, Joys and their children living and lifestyle, power to them.


translates in honest speak to:
"And if he did use such techniques on people he says he loves - that would be baloney."

No that makes him a thief, a liar and a predator who preys on the vulnerable doesn't it really?

Originally Posted by allan1015

Borrowing from you a bit:
"I thank god that I am the cantankerous, argumentative SOB that I've always been, that doesn't accept the status quo and just accept what people say to me." - such as the people and arguments presented here"


In honest english that would be:
Its appears to me, that Allan doesn't challenge his own program or his own thoughts- though I don't really know the guy and only have this small slice into him, and if he did have some challenging and independent thought, it really wouldn't fit my agenda so we'll just waive our hands on this one.

"honest english" WTF is that? that sounds like "pop psychology" Allan. Who gave you the keys to what is "honest english"?

Your words betray you Allan, and that is what I see, CAN YOU NOT ADMIT THAT SOMEONE SEE'S YOU AS IGNORANT? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THAT? CAN YOU NOT FOLLOW THE DICTATES OF YOUR OWN MASTER?

Originally Posted by allan1015

Translates to
Its actually important to my agenda that we dehumanize Allan and paint him as much of a robot as possible. Not only does that take away any actual points he may have, it makes it easier on us to dismiss him and not interface with him in any substantive way.



Lie

Allan are you a robot? Sounds like you you are parroting the defenese part of the program, completely devoid of your own reaction, and what to do about, except react. You just can't see it, you follow the program blindly, because you are afraid to see it, and that is pathetic.

I must have puppet master powers to be able to get you to dance on string like you are, I push your buttons and your anger pops out, it's there pal and you are dancing to its tune.

Although I do have to ask how does it feel to have some bait you and make you respond out of defensiveness and anger?

And that is no lie.

But you are right you are to be dismissed that is no doubt about that, garbage in / garbage out of your head, then your mouth and then onto the pages of this thread. Spewing your words of anger of those who do not believe as you do.

[Violet11]

Originally Posted by allan1015

'Could be considerd depenendent" - in your world where it support syour position I guess. Not in my world, which involves living with an alcoholic wife for 15 years and supporting her recovery for the past 12 or so. Only to say I've some experience on addiction and dependency. So stretching the dependency to mean any use what so ever is way out of normal and not really going to fly. The right use of the word in this case is more like addicted.

First, I find it insensitive and disrespectful speaking about your wife and her personal struggles. Does she know you're on the internet typing away about it? It's not the first time you've brought it up here, not to mention other details that should have been private and personal.

Second, you stated "Not in my world". Have you considered how "dependency" is defined in other people's worlds?

Also, are you not required to fast on brown rice and carrots and all that crap before initiation? Are you saying that even though you have to fast and avoid alcohol, you can go ahead and get baked during that time? Is this is in the chela handbook somewhere? Can you provide the passages please? Has Gary written other books that contradict the passages I shared?

Originally Posted by allan1015

So again, there is no Vow of chasity or absence, so to speak. and my tapes basically say, put the Master first, do my spiritual exercises, my practice first, then light up. Actually, after I light up, bring the Master into that as well, no need to feel its shameful activity, one can practice presence doing anything. What one wants to avoid is to only learn how to connect, center, practice presence while high, its not sustainable and when you don't have the drug, you find you have to start all over to learn the connection thing.

The "connection thing"? Is this what you've learned from the profound teachings of Gary Olsen? Let's see, one time when I smoked pot, I found a magical "connection thing" with a tube of lipstick from my purse. Big deal.

Yes, you can practice "presence" doing anything - in other words, you can devote every activity to contemplating your "guru". Well, duh! That's part of the brainwashing. The more you think about him, the more he gets injected into your waking and dreaming life, which convinces you he's "real".

Originally Posted by allan1015

I said I was able to find provisional faith, your telling me I am showing blind faith. Is this point clear now? will you stop putting words in my mouth?

Provisional faith...how is that NOT blind faith? Maybe you think because it's only "temporary" blindness? But this is a crucial part of the brainwashing, and you're not seeing it because of your temporary blindness/"provisional faith".

Originally Posted by allan1015

You do? how? You don't find that a little nasty? Even insulting to people you don't know? Disengenous question as you really weren't looking for an answer, as the question was just a setup for a poke in the eye.

You're referring to me saying your definition of friendship is a little skewed. I reached that opinion when you referred to someone as a "good friend" and then it came out that you'd never met him (Ben Seeley).

This indicated to me that your definition of "friend" includes people you know of online but you've never met. That's fine. But therefore I am assuming that your "anti-cult friends" might ALSO be people you've never actually met. Just a hunch.

This also reminds me of another question you asked me a few posts ago, which was...how do I know you're not well-read?

Answer: it's just an educated hunch based on several pieces of evidence. Like the fact that you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", and you don't know your "there, their, and they're"s, "to, two, and too"s, etc. It's possible you missed parts of elementary school when this was taught...but even so, if you had done a lot of reading in your lifetime, you would have easily picked up on things like this by the time you're 50.

Also, you were consistently misspelling "chela" as "cheala", and you stated you prefer listening to Gary's tapes over reading his books. This tells me you might not have read a lot of the texts, because the word "chela" is plastered all over the pages...and one would think you would've picked up on the correct spelling at some point.

Also, the fact that you consider certain MP phrases "profound teachings", when they are concepts presented in any number of philosophical/spiritual texts and teachings...ideas I would've thought you'd have come across a long time ago.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not playing english teacher here. Everyone makes typos and misspells, etc. I'm simply saying that your REPETITIVE misuse of grammar and misspellings indicate to me you might not read much. Not a big deal, and certainly not your biggest problem. The cult you're in is a MUCH bigger problem.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by allan1015

Mystic,

I am overwhelmed, to many of you and to few of me

All I am hearing from you is that
if you pay for it, it is not real
why?
if it was real you wouldn't have to pay

You are overwhelmed . . . I will concede that . . . reality has that effect on the self-deceived. But you still miss the point. It is not you paying FOR it that makes it not real. It is REQUIRING you to pay for it that does. THAT is the "fruit" that reveals your "master" to be an unenlightened fraud. An enlightened man would earn his living in some worldly fashion . . . not debase and corrupt the spiritual quest for understanding to do so.

[Shuffler]

Wonder if anybody will have the stones to speak out at the ABQ event this weekend.

Will any dissenting voices speak up and call the man to task and own up to the accusations of being a phony/tax cheat/oppressor per this thread??

That would be priceless...worthy of capturing on a camera phone or something, although I'm sure that any use of recording devices is prohibited at these super-secret meetings. I wonder if any local media would find it worthy to drop in and check it out after a tip-off...

So what does one get for this $40 'meeting'? I imagine it's more for his ego to sit there and listen to starry-eyed devotees wax poetic or get all choked up in the presence of their phony God-man.

Too bad Bill Maher couldn't work this into 'Religulous'...

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You are overwhelmed . . . I will concede that . . . reality has that effect on the self-deceived.

Always seeking opportunity to twist things you folks are.

I said I was overwhelmed because there are half a dozen of you all make these posts that often are rich in half truths and spin and it takes a good deal of effort, especially when words will get picked at, spelling and grammer will be picked at, ec etc etc

Anyway not complaining, I chose it.

But you still miss the point. It is not you paying FOR it that makes it not real. It is REQUIRING you to pay for it that does.

Again your stuck on the same thing. Adding the word required doesnt change anything in regards to my response.