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Until the law changes, technically marijuana is a DRUG! Even though your master thinks of it as an herb, and an aid to entering the "higher states"...
I REPEAT: I never said anything about 2 people.... but, you seem certain that you know something that has not been said.... interesting.
Stupid and whine-y .... you say.... hmm, well Allan the chelas that I know were the foundation of MasterPath... and they are anything but stupid and whine-y. But hey, the insults flow both directions.... we are bigots and you are.... well, you are a student of Gary Olsen.
end_of_faith, the issue was that I said there was no Vow of abstinence from pot. You claimed such a Vow does exist. I am asking you to prove it.
lets not branch off into discussing other matters like legal status or me being a moron.
yes your are correct, you said Chelas - plural I did assume two, but lets say its more then two - doesn't really change any of my point. Your not one of those that will focus in on a mistake or something unrelated in order to avoid the substance are you.
For instance should I go and point out that I didn't call anyone stupid?
Again, for clarity sake, I said that the example you provided as some challenge - smoke that - about people feeling guilty for smoking pot, felt stupid and whiny to me. It doest seem like a legit issue to support the masterpath is a destructive cult.
My reality is that my decision making is at least as informed as yours,if not more.
This is just one example of the hypocrisy of this thread, presenting itself as full of facts - yet in truth based primarily on subjective, personal beliefs.
What I find absolutely perverse about this is that these people claim THEY are the ones making INFORMED decisions - as if they are the ones going through a factual, scientific, full 360 degree analysis of things.
implicit in your statement is that you are more informed with factual, scientific, and are going through a full 360 degree analysis.....
you see hypocrisy in this thread, yet you can't see it in your self-appointed master on your 'guru-led path.'
as far as my 'smoke that' example of your "master's" hypocrisy being a stupid and whine-y statement.... whatever.
The points we are making are beyond your ken of understanding anyway. I said that a year ago, and it appears to be just as true today.
implicit in your statement is that you are more informed with factual, scientific, and are going through a full 360 degree analysis.....
you see hypocrisy in this thread, yet you can't see it in your self-appointed master on your 'guru-led path.'
as far as my 'smoke that' example of your "master's" hypocrisy being a stupid and whine-y statement.... whatever.
The points we are making are beyond your ken of understanding anyway. I said that a year ago, and it appears to be just as true today.
Cognitive dissonance of this magnitude cannot be broken without a significant emotional event of similar or greater magnitude. Reason is completely ineffective against self-deception in defense of deeply embedded needs. Every huckster, con artist, spiritual pimp, etc. knows this and builds their livelihood on it.
Ahh, ok, your absolutely right. I reread that part
And can see know I totaly read it in another context. repeating words - which is simran - was what I guess I keyed in on.
My appologies
Okay but this is a chronic problem with you, Allan. You do not read other people's words, you scan posts looking for reasons to go off on a rant about how you're being oppressed by bigots. At least the other chelas who've posted here actually read before responding.
You are clearly the type of person who rather than listening when someone else is talking, you're just waiting for your turn to talk and thinking of what you're going to say next. I'll bet anything people in your life have pointed this out to you before.
But this thread isn't about you, it's about the man you call "master". So, transitioning back to him...in some ways, he might be a bit like you. He likes to hear himself talk, and is on the ultimate messianic trip. You both believe you know more or are more aware than others, even though you are both largely clueless and not well-read.
It doesn't bother you that Gary's a right wing nutjob or that he thinks people lived with dinosaurs, etc. You rationalize this away as quirks of the "man" Gary. But the "man" Gary is supposed to be an enlightened and aware "living master"! Not just worldly knowledgeable, but other-wordly! He claims to know that which the rest of us cannot.
Case and point: the bird flu tape. He claims he's got the inside info that the government won't tell you, yadda, yadda, yadda. A recurring theme is how much more informed he is about the ways of the world and you all are just "children".
Near the end of the bird flu tape, Gary mentions the name of a chela who had just died and says "she's doing just fine", that he was there when she "translated". So in addition to his inside knowledge of government secrets, etc., he wants you to believe that his spirit is in the other realms floating around having zany adventures, witnessing all that you can't see.
If he's so magical, all-seeing, and all-knowing, how could he not know basic scientific facts? Why can't he pronounce the words of the ancient wisdom properly? He can't even sound them out like second-graders do! He's such a tool, Allan, but you're thoroughly devoted to him as if he's some "master". Master of Puppets! (Cue the Metallica...)
Volume 2 of my war-and-peace-maker responses to the questions asked two weeks ago is IMMINENT! Yes I know what that means but while the thread is on a "metal" theme for a moment I wanted to offer another clue into PP-KAT preprogrammed, kool-aided thinking which I'm happy to discuss: the metaphysical "fear of the afterlife" element.
As you pointed out, @Violet, yes SGO sometimes makes passing references, (mostly very fleeting and rather vague), that such and such a soul is doing just fine in the "afterlife" and he "guarantees" to be present in spirit-form at the moment of a chela's translation (death) to help the soul of the chela out of the body and through the astral, bardo planes in the 49 days after death (as detailed in The Tibetan Book of the Dead, for example).
Manumukhs (those not initiated by a satguru), we are told , must face Yama (in Sanskrit Dharam Rai / Raj, the Lord of Death) and his 4-henchman-angels after translation, whose purpose is to act as baliffs, evicting stubborn souls who are too attached to the physical plane.
Recently SGO referred to these angels as "Chitter" and "Gupt" which again (like vartamik and duntamik) is a distorted variation of an ancient Sanskrit theme: of the recording angel known as Chittragupta (you know the one in cartoons hovering over our right shoulder, with the pitchfork devil on the left).
What makes this rap different from the conventional fear or guilt trip of Christianity, for example, however, is that this after-life guarantee (I know it sounds quite car-salesy doesn't it!) applies even to chelas who have left SGO's tuition, such as those who are on this forum-thread.
SGO puts it this way: "You may have left me, but I (Garji, in his Inner Form) have not left the chela......"
We are warned in one of the early books (from Light to Sound I think it is) that the astral plane is a place of extreme danger as well as of extreme beauty, but that once the soul of a chela arrives at the 3rdi-state-of-consciousness, be it after death or during waking-vision while alive, SGO guarantees to protect and accompany us there (in the astral plane and higher dimensions).
So...to my track of the day today....I'm not a metal-head (nor a metal robot on a MetalPath) but EYE am fascinated by anything to do with the afterlife and non-physical states of consciousness...
Queue Manowar, The Demon's Whip with some telling lyrics of what awaits us (whimper)
(@SK you're a bit into Lord of the Rings I gather, so your thoughts on this whole topic with regard to SGO and his ability to manifest as Garji in the afterlife would be most appreciated)
(tested embedding - doesn't - need to open in new window if you want to subject your ears to this)
"
As the seven steps await, hear the great bell toll
With a dead man's bones conjure, the enemy of the soul
From the misery and sadness, of the molten seas of hell
Mystic love and mystic symbols in evil dreams there dwell
...
Armies of the gods of hell ride across the astral plane
Bearing curses of destruction, sworn beyond the grave
Children of the darkness, all born but to deceive
By the ancient code of evil, grant not one reprieve
...
Your scripture and your sermons, are leaves born on the wind
To heal the unrepentant, one needs a greater sin
...
The cult that serves the living, accept this offering"
- Manowar, The Demon's Whip
Last edited by PeaceMaker21; 09-19-2010 at 02:03 PM..
Reason: added Chitter and Gupt reference :eek:
For instance, you assume that everyone has a fear of the afterlife.
I for one do not have such a fear, since I have faced the fear of death many times, we soldiers go into harm's way quite frequently so it is to be understood, not be outsourced to some idiot like Gary Olsen. But this apparent fear is easily overcome by way of a practice, known in Zen terms as "The Way of Death".
This practice of "The Way of Death" basically is about accepting the outcome of one's death as being one possible outcome, and once one has fully accepted one's own death (or any fear for that matter), and have let it go as an outcome, it then gives one the freedom to act as one must and should given the context and circumstances that one is faced with.
But one definitely does NOT NEED a master for such a viewpoint or perception, or even to be sold on the need for a master does it?
All it requires is a willingness to seek to be effective in the situation. You might say effectiveness is soul, but there is no proof of that, despite what you may have bought into or believe. It is a viewpoint of the mind that is all, which according to your knucklehead (Gary) is soul, which it clearly is not, since it is a perspective of the mind, clearly.
As for the 4 henchmen that you mention, I have met them in one of my more deranged states, (partly from detoxing from mercury poisoning and partly induced because of being exposed to the BS of the MP), simply put it was a figment of the imagination. It was put there because that is what I read and heard while I was on the MP, the mind does this since it seeks to put in place images to explain experiences, however that does not make the images necessarily real or based off of an objective reality in the upper realms. That is just the program, in this case from the MP, manifesting itself and that is what Gary sells you, and you buy in don't you? Clearly you do PM21.
But since you asked about the afterlife I will indulge you. The 4 henchman by the way are known as the Four Lords of Dharma, (they can be found throughout Zen Buddhist texts on the subject) and I have met them in my imagination more than once, and they are allies of mine. There is a # of reasons why they think of me as an ally, but that is my business. As for Raj the Lord of Death, met him too, so what? It means nothing to me, I met the required standards of conduct and behavior, which should be a hint to you. (It is what you do, not your intention that matters in life, good intention is useless, effectiveness is the only fruitful path to follow) - Hence why you see me write on effectiveness as a direction and not follow this idiot Gary and his idiotic teachings.
I can assure you that in my case that Gary's visage does not make appearances in my consciousness, but then again I scratched that program out by retaking back the reigns of my own responsibility and not outsourcing it to some idiot like Gary Olsen.
And again to remind you PM21, that to use the term sri, is offensive to us, out of respect for others you should refrain from its use. The SGO term is offensive since it assumes that we agree with you, and many of us do not. He is not a true guru, I, @EOF, and quite a few others can attest to that. Not unless you mean Stupid Gary Olsen or even S**t-head Gary Olsen, those descriptors we could probably agree with.
Back to my point; If I die, I die, everything else that has ever been written on the subject by others on death and the afterlife, regardless of culture or religion, has been the cumulative effect of what they believe to be what they expect and/or believe that the afterlife to be based off of what they have been told it is. An emotional neediness to fill that understanding with something that is based off of the morality of their belief system, and what it is that they do not know. A fear of the unknown, especially if they have not lived up to the standards of another's belief systems that they agree with and believe in on some level or another.
And that is how Gary preys on people's vulnerability to get you and others to shell out the monthly dues, and go listen to this tool speak. And being a good little robot, in continuing to repeat such tripe here on this thread of all places. Jeesh man you really don't see it do you?
With regards to the LoTR comment, I red all of those books when I was teenager, and of course saw the movies when they came out. However its relevance is significantly questionable. Your focus on the "afterlife and non-physical states of consciousness" are all examples of either escapism or fantasy, (2 of the 4 games that people play with themselves) and is manifested by your use of the LoTR's mythology here. In either case it is not about being in the here and now, nor about reality, bear that in mind.
LoTR's is a story, just like Gary's BS is, but let's not go so far afield of reality to call it an objective truth. The only way that happens is by flight of your imagination, but it is not the here and now, nor is about facing reality as it is. If you feed your imagination with that crap, the end result is a lost life, with no real contribution or achievement in aiding your fellow man, that is if you truly sought to serve others. The only result that you can expect from burning Gary's visage into your head is dependency and victim hood.
Choosing a master is to choose to be dependent and not to seek command and control of one's life to the degree that one can, and thus have more exciting and enjoyable experiences in one's life, hence to be on the MP is a bloody waste of time.
Wake up dude. Smell the proverbial coffee of your own life, and stop outsourcing it to some idiot like Gary who is only interested in your money flowing into his coffers to pay for his suntan and his weed while he languishes beneath his olive trees that you and others have paid for.
Okay but this is a chronic problem with you, Allan. You do not read other people's words, you scan posts looking for reasons to go off on a rant about how you're being oppressed by bigots. At least the other chelas who've posted here actually read before responding.
You are clearly the type of person who rather than listening when someone else is talking, you're just waiting for your turn to talk and thinking of what you're going to say next. I'll bet anything people in your life have pointed this out to you before.
But this thread isn't about you, it's about the man you call "master". So, transitioning back to him...in some ways, he might be a bit like you. He likes to hear himself talk, and is on the ultimate messianic trip. You both believe you know more or are more aware than others, even though you are both largely clueless and not well-read.
It doesn't bother you that Gary's a right wing nutjob or that he thinks people lived with dinosaurs, etc. You rationalize this away as quirks of the "man" Gary. But the "man" Gary is supposed to be an enlightened and aware "living master"! Not just worldly knowledgeable, but other-wordly! He claims to know that which the rest of us cannot.
Case and point: the bird flu tape. He claims he's got the inside info that the government won't tell you, yadda, yadda, yadda. A recurring theme is how much more informed he is about the ways of the world and you all are just "children".
Near the end of the bird flu tape, Gary mentions the name of a chela who had just died and says "she's doing just fine", that he was there when she "translated". So in addition to his inside knowledge of government secrets, etc., he wants you to believe that his spirit is in the other realms floating around having zany adventures, witnessing all that you can't see.
If he's so magical, all-seeing, and all-knowing, how could he not know basic scientific facts? Why can't he pronounce the words of the ancient wisdom properly? He can't even sound them out like second-graders do! He's such a tool, Allan, but you're thoroughly devoted to him as if he's some "master". Master of Puppets! (Cue the Metallica...)
This response by you is awesome, and has correctly characterized what I have been seeing from Allan for some time now.
Manumukhs (those not initiated by a satguru), we are told , must face Yama (in Sanskrit Dharam Rai / Raj, the Lord of Death) and his 4-henchman-angels after translation, whose purpose is to act as baliffs, evicting stubborn souls who are too attached to the physical plane.
Recently SGO referred to these angels as "Chitter" and "Gupt" which again (like vartamik and duntamik) is a distorted variation of an ancient Sanskrit theme: of the recording angel known as Chittragupta (you know the one in cartoons hovering over our right shoulder, with the pitchfork devil on the left).
This is absolutely hilarious to me. In the bird flu tape Gary said Christians and religious people can't be told the truth about the impending apocalypse because they, with their little "firetrucks and baby rattles" need to be told "fables" in order to keep them satisfied.
Um...pot? This is kettle. You're black. Gary's chelas are required to believe HIS "fables"...because WHY? Because they originated in Hindu and Buddhist scriptures, etc. instead of Christian? What a crock. He's not even relaying it all correctly anyway.
We know that scripture from all of these man-made religions has been bastardized, misinterpreted, and distorted for political expediency and personal gain throughout history. But the ultimate bastardization is someone (ie. Gary) claiming to be a representative of the divine, and then f-ing up the ancient wisdom because of either laziness, stupidity, or ego (or all three). He's disgusting.
Personally I'm of the opinion that there's truth and beauty buried in all religious scriptures, not just Gary's favorite little "baby rattles" that he shakes for you while you all sit mesmerized in awe of "his teachings".
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21
What makes this rap different from the conventional fear or guilt trip of Christianity, for example, however, is that this after-life guarantee (I know it sounds quite car-salesy doesn't it!) applies even to chelas who have left SGO's tuition, such as those who are on this forum-thread.
Yes, it's car-salesy and I'm glad you see that, Peacemaker. I love how it's a guarantee that can never be disproven because the only people who can verify it are conveniently dead. It's just like saying we'll all meet St. Peter at the pearly gates. Just another "baby rattle" with a different sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21
We are warned in one of the early books (from Light to Sound I think it is) that the astral plane is a place of extreme danger as well as of extreme beauty, but that once the soul of a chela arrives at the 3rdi-state-of-consciousness, be it after death or during waking-vision while alive, SGO guarantees to protect and accompany us there (in the astral plane and higher dimensions).
If you do any research on this, you'll find out that gurus who claim there's great danger in the astral plane are full of s*** and are using this fear tactic to make themselves necessary.
And by the way, Peacemaker, I'm not afraid of death or the afterlife either. My personal and spiritual experiences rid me of any fears I once had. I'm surprised that in 14 years with your "master", you haven't had similarly profound experiences. Sounds like the opposite in fact, he WANTS you to be afraid...at least afraid enough to hole up in remote areas with your 100 pounds of rice and latrines, etc. etc. This alone is enough to prove Gary Olsen is a complete joke.
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Every huckster, con artist, spiritual pimp, etc. knows this and builds their livelihood on it.
Well, *I'm* not a puppet...but what about Death?
Yes I know what that means 
but while the thread is on a "metal" theme for a moment I wanted to offer another clue into PP-KAT preprogrammed, kool-aided thinking which I'm happy to discuss: the metaphysical "fear of the afterlife" element.
You presuppose a lot don't you PM21
