More Problems With Noah's Ark (gospel, scrutiny, Moses, church)
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Sorry...Ya struck out again...No science on that site...
Well try Answer.com, you can't claim bias Christian sites all the time.
For over a century, archeologists stated there was no evidence of an organized state society in Edon. (BIBLICAL MINIMALISTS) touted this fact as one piece of evidence of the Bible's ultimate unreliability as a historical source. However recent excavations in Jordan have shed new lignt on the history of Edom. And this new data confirms the Biblical account.
For whatever reason, it is often not the qualified folks that champion the great discoveries of this world. Often it is the little guy who has no experience in such things. The greatest Biblical text, the Dead Sea Scrolls was unearthed by a shepherd boy. *And it appears the God of the Bible often uses the non-important, and least qualified people to do His bidding.*
(Careful with this last *admission*, C34. It could REALLY come back and bite you! I hope you're laughing now at this statement and how perhaps it might not have been so wise to say it! It's OK though: I could really go to town on it, but I'll take it as a "sense of humor" kind of thing! Your God will appreciate it I'm sure....)
So it should come as no surprise, that the one person who actually reaches Noah's Ark, may very well be someone who is not highly thought of, nor is he considered by the elite of this world. And it may be, that this person will have absolutely no training in the scientific method. Yet, if I know God, this is just the kind of person who will finally reach the Ark of Noah. God really does have a sense of humor.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God.
Philosophically speaking, C34, this is a complete reversal for you! I've seen some of your posts where you point to some researcher, some eye-witness person, a "converted" scientist, or an American pilot of great repute, who provides evidence that you feel substantiates your Christian point of view.
But then, here now, you, in a complete turn-around, state that it is or will be "the little people" who can, have or will make great discoveries.
That's quite OK by me, as long as they don't over-reach in their conclusions. It may be OK to say "This brown thing I stumbled across at the 15,000 foot level in a violent snowstorm is very intriquing and interesting and worthy of further study", but for them to say "I found this brown thing and, because I'm a devout Christian, I really want and need for it to be undisputed proof of (fill in the blank here: biblical novelty of your choice!), and since I know it IS the absolute, true and real (again, fill in the blank...), my finding is also, handily, absoluteproof of God's greatness and his love for us and that He designed everything and [Oh praise the Lord, I'm getting all squirmy in the shorts over this finding! I'm blessed! Oh wow!)".
Etc.
And then they also go a bit mad about anyone questioning their new idol / icon / "proofy thingy".
It's not "elitist" to be educated in something one is passionately curious about, and interested enough to read, to talk to other known world experts, or to try to continue to further one's deeper understanding.
Christians conduct intense bible study groups. That's great, but there's also not so much actual questioning of the written word going on, is there? It's more of a self-congratualtory mutual agreement head-bowing society.
Alternately, scientists might add another ever-more-complex graduate degree to their resume, or seek tenure at an outstanding accredited University, or organize a high-end convention on their very specific topic, and/or use their growing knowledge and experience to further the totality of that knowledge in the areas they are interested in. Or they might organize a highly reliable and unassailable multidisciplinary expedition to The Ark site to fully examine the evidence, and then to come to a very believable conclusion, complete with detailed evidence. Oddly, they will include evangelical scholars as well, which is something the evangelicals don't do when they organize a religious fact-finding mission. How odd, eh?)
Scientists also happily and generally want to share and communicate that new knowledge to the world completely absent an "agenda" as is so often critically directed at them by combative debators.
To dismissively put down that passion and knowledge as elitist, arrogant, unreliable, ego-driven or dis-honest is to show one's very real biases, wouldn't you say, C34? I mean, let's be honest here!
Last edited by rifleman; 01-20-2009 at 03:52 AM..
Reason: typos
Philosophically speaking, C34, this is a complete reversal for you! I've seen some of your posts where you point to some researcher, some eye-witness person, a "converted" scientist, or an American pilot of great repute, who provides evidence that you feel substantiates your Christian point of view.
But then, here now, you, in a complete turn-around, state that it is or will be "the little people" who can, have or will make great discoveries.
That's quite OK by me, as long as they don't over-reach in their conclusions. It may be OK to say "This brown thing I stumbled across at the 15,000 foot level in a violent snowstorm is very intriquing and interesting and worthy of further study", but for them to say "I found this brown thing and, because I'm a devout Christian, I really want and need for it to be undisputed proof of (fill in the blank here: biblical novelty of your choice!), and since I know it IS the absolute, true and real (again, fill in the blank...), my finding is also, handily, absoluteproof of God's greatness and his love for us and that He designed everything and [Oh praise the Lord, I'm getting all squirmy in the shorts over this finding! I'm blessed! Oh wow!)".
Etc.
And then they also go a bit mad about anyone questioning their new idol / icon / "proofy thingy".
It's not "elitist" to be educated in something one is passionately curious about, and interested enough to read, to talk to other known world experts, or to try to continue to further one's deeper understanding.
Christians conduct intense bible study groups. That's great, but there's also not so much actual questioning of the written word going on, is there? It's more of a self-congratualtory mutual agreement head-bowing society.
Alternately, scientists might add another ever-more-complex graduate degree to their resume, or seek tenure at an outstanding accredited University, or organize a high-end convention on their very specific topic, and/or use their growing knowledge and experience to further the totality of that knowledge in the areas they are interested in. Or they might organize a highly reliable and unassailable multidisciplinary expedition to The Ark site to fully examine the evidence, and then to come to a very believable conclusion, complete with detailed evidence. Oddly, they will include evangelical scholars as well, which is something the evangelicals don't do when they organize a religious fact-finding mission. How odd, eh?)
Scientists also happily and generally want to share and communicate that new knowledge to the world completely absent an "agenda" as is so often critically directed at them by combative debators.
To dismissively put down that passion and knowledge as elitist, arrogant, unreliable, ego-driven or dis-honest is to show one's very real biases, wouldn't you say, C34? I mean, let's be honest here!
At no time did I say those in the know were dis-honest. I said often it is not the elite of this world that will lead the way to discovery. God often uses the least of us, sometimes to reveal his greater truths. That's what I said.
Just like at the resurrection, God did not use one of the great religious leaders of the day to reveal to the world that Christ had risen from the grave. He used a woman who no one believed.
And just like the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He used a shepherd boy to lead the way to discovery.
And when it comes to Noah's Ark, God may once again use someone who is not highly thought of, and not thought of as important, or knowledgable.
And just like the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He used a shepherd boy to lead the way to discovery.
Possibly. But they were only taken seriously by the rest of the world after they were analysed by true archaeologists and scientists. You could learn from that example...
Well try Answer.com, you can't claim bias Christian sites all the time.
For over a century, archeologists stated there was no evidence of an organized state society in Edon. (BIBLICAL MINIMALISTS) touted this fact as one piece of evidence of the Bible's ultimate unreliability as a historical source. However recent excavations in Jordan have shed new lignt on the history of Edom. And this new data confirms the Biblical account.
Did I dispute the existence of Edom?...No, I dispute events mentioned in the bible, such as the great flood or the Red sea crossing, and I see no archeological evidence of either.
Yeah, well...that's the same old 1000 monkeys with 1000 typewriters writing Shakespeare anecdote.
Eeeuuuuu! What a mess that would be. You require at a minimum an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite number of old Remington Rands (in full working order, with new or refurbished ribbons...), along with an infinite supply of correction tape (oopppps, nope, don't need that, sorry. That's the point of the whole exercise, right?), but also an infinite supply of Purina Primate Chow:
...water mugs, and nice warm clean pet beds for the evenings. Mood music through an infinitely large speaker and audio system (an infinitely long Enya CD...yawn), an infinitely huge, nice, warm and fully furnished dry office building, and an infinitely large dumpster for disposing of the inevitable failed efforts, or the "drafts" where everything is just right except for that misplaced "period" at the end of Paragraph 27, line 2, draft # 1.6 X 10 -inf power?
Oh, and an infinite supply of psycho-monkey-shrinks to deal with the near-infinite (Infinity minus one actually... One gets it right, but when?) number of suicidally depressed chimp- or monkey-minded authors...
You can see why no-one has done this otherwise elegantly simple scientific "proof", eh? Too many (an infinity, actually...) of demands!
(Sorry to have derailed the train of logical thought here....)
Last edited by rifleman; 01-20-2009 at 05:07 PM..
Reason: errors in links!
Another recent discovery proves the Bible is correct again, leaving egg on the faces of those who imbraced academic belief. Bibles timeline correct for the Kingdom of Edom. Link below.
Campbell, why do you only listen to website claims by people who have a preconceived point to prove? Why do you only take the word of "investigators" who already have a belief that the Bible is literally true? Why do you only listen to those who simply reinforce your belief?
It's because you believe first, and (don't) ask questions later.
That's not archeologically, anthropologically, historically or geologically scientific in any way shape or form.
Possibly. But they were only taken seriously by the rest of the world after they were analysed by true archaeologists and scientists. You could learn from that example...
If someone can show me a ship that is over 400 feet long with triple decks and cages inside of it, and it's on the top of Mt. Ararat, I will not need a true archaeologist, or scientists to tell me what it is.
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