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This is like trying to compare the different types of domestic abuse.
I can believe that me, a black man and former Christian, used to actually defend this foolishness by saying, "well, biblical slavery was not as bad as African slavery" as if to EXCUSE and accept ANY kind of slavery to ANY people.
They were 2 different animals, actually. You're making the classic mistake of using our value system today to say something thousands of years ago and much different in implementation was wrong. It's not that morals change--it's that slavery then and slavery of 200 years ago were not the same thing.
The person might be exaggerating, but Jesus clearly had women followers in prominent roles. Even Paul states something positive about a female merchant. Several early Christian women gained renown in a way pretty rare in most religions.
And not just for cooking or cleaning. Priscilla and Phoebe are mentioned as deaconesses. Kings and princes reportedly sought the advice of Hilda of Whitby. The first play written by a woman was by a Catholic nun named Hrotsvitha. Catherine of Siena lectured Popes. The Quakers went further allowing women to preach and do other things. Many of the first suffragists were Quakers.
So which Testament of the bible is correct on slavery, women's rights, etc... , the OT or the NT?
This is like trying to compare the different types of domestic abuse.
I can believe that me, a black man and former Christian, used to actually defend this foolishness by saying, "well, biblical slavery was not as bad as African slavery" as if to EXCUSE and accept ANY kind of slavery to ANY people.
That is because deep in their hearts, they are ashamed of slavery in the Bible!
But, because they have made a decree that the bible is infallible, they are now in a quagmire to defend the horrific slavery as depicted throughout the OT!
Forcibly sterilizing the disabled and banning certain immigrants from entering the country were excused using Darwin. Massive starvation and persecutions were excused using Lamarckian evolution. The Chinese expand into Uighur and Tibetan land, persecuting both, without a Biblical reason in sight.
That you can excuse evil with something is not necessarily that meaningful.
There you go maligning poor old Darwin again. Why blame Darwin?
They were 2 different animals, actually. You're making the classic mistake of using our value system today to say something thousands of years ago and much different in implementation was wrong. It's not that morals change--it's that slavery then and slavery of 200 years ago were not the same thing.
You are spinning the argument K-Rich. No one is talking about which one was worst. Everyone then and now knew slavery was WRONG, whether they cared to admit it or not ("god-given" conscience and all) but the crux of the OP (or at least the implication) is that "god" and "slavery" in the same sentence is problematic.
The prblem with Christianity is, there is an issue here, but they have to try to soften the blow by using the "slavery in the bible was not like African slavery." Ok, let's say it wasn't, taking away someone's BASIC right is still an issue. Granted, I will admit there was indentured servanthood (oftentimes slavery given a cute name), but when you read some passages in the OT, the Israelites were only instructed NOT to enslave their brothers inthe classic sense, but everyone else was fair game.
You are spinning the argument K-Rich. No one is talking about which one was worst. Everyone then and now knew slavery was WRONG, whether they cared to admit it or not ("god-given" conscience and all) but the crux of the OP (or at least the implication) is that "god" and "slavery" in the same sentence is problematic.
No, I really don't think everyone "knew" that slavery was wrong 3000 years ago.
Quote:
The prblem with Christianity is, there is an issue here, but they have to try to soften the blow by using the "slavery in the bible was not like African slavery." Ok, let's say it wasn't, taking away someone's BASIC right is still an issue.
By what standard to do you presuppose that we all have basic rights of the sort that were denied 3000 years ago?
Are these "rights" granted by God? Do we have God-given rights today? Or are they rights decided on by society?
Forcibly sterilizing the disabled and banning certain immigrants from entering the country were excused using Darwin. Massive starvation and persecutions were excused using Lamarckian evolution. The Chinese expand into Uighur and Tibetan land, persecuting both, without a Biblical reason in sight.
That you can excuse evil with something is not necessarily that meaningful.
Firstly, who says I am "excusing" anything. People will use whatever excuse they can get their hands on. In case you missed the tone of my post, I was berating the usage of a scripture to enslave people and destroy ancient cultures and religions. There is only one continent that's been spared the bible, and that's Antartica.
Secondly, I would be interested in your source for Darwin being used for sterilization programs like the "Black Stork" program and in the 1950's as well.
No, I really don't think everyone "knew" that slavery was wrong 3000 years ago.
By what standard to do you presuppose that we all have basic rights of the sort that were denied 3000 years ago?
Are these "rights" granted by God? Do we have God-given rights today? Or are they rights decided on by society?
People believed slavery was not only right by God 3000 years ago, they believed it was their God given right to enslave another human being as long as it was not another Hebrew. This is why they proudly wrote about it in the Bible books. Now, of course, we know bettter.
No, I really don't think everyone "knew" that slavery was wrong 3000 years ago.
By what standard to do you presuppose that we all have basic rights of the sort that were denied 3000 years ago?
Are these "rights" granted by God? Do we have God-given rights today? Or are they rights decided on by society?
If your Bible doesn't impress on you that all men are created equal and deserve to be free, throw the book out! Even your book says that God gave man free will! What good is free will if they are enslaved?
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