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WOW, pladecalvo, what an exposé! Unfortunately, Acharya S’ is only scratching the surface. Let me give you the whole story:
The Mormon Church is really only a cover story. You see, right after the Louisiana Purchase, Spain was angry, because when it ceded the territory to Napoleon and France, there was a line in the original cede document stipulating that France could not give the territory to anyone else. Since you are in Spain, I am sure you are aware of this fact.
Well, in any event, because there was a breech of contract, Napoleon paid Spain a kizzillion dollars, which he borrowed from Josephine’s uncle on her mother’s third cousin’s side of the family. Now, not only did this uncle run a pawn shop in the area of Normandy, which is another story, he was also a direct descendant of the last Knights Templar.
Next, Napoleon defaulted on the loan, so the uncle sold the loan to the Duke of Wellington at a discount, with the understanding that the Duke and Gebhard Von Blucher would defeat Napoleon at the Battle of Waterloo. As a short side note, Blucher’s great, great, granddaughter would be instrumental in bringing about Young Frankenstein using the stage name of Cloris Leachman as Frau Blucher. It is also rumored that the Duke used some of Blucher’s mother’s money to buy the original Napoleonic pawn ticket, but this cannot be confirmed.
Well, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, but it turns out the Duke, Von Blucher, and the uncle were all related through Eve’s side of the family, but contrary to popular belief, not through Cain or Able. Their line was from later children. Once they discovered this, they made a pact to get the Louisiana Territory back. Anyhow, they hired agents in the United States; all of which have been related to the Duke of Wellington in one way or another, such as the Duke of Earl, and the Dukes of Hazard. These agents scoured the country looking for ways to get the Louisiana Territory into their control.
One day they stumbled across Joseph Smith. They hired him to create a new religion and get everyone to move to the Utah Territory. The plan was diabolically simple. Once everyone was in Utah, the Duke of Wellington, Von Blucher consortium (DWVBC) as it was now known, would move in, subdivide the property, and sell Barbeque and Cajon Music franchises. Well, as we know, Joseph Smith was only partially successful, so the plan has changed.
As you can see from Acharya S’ page, the Mormons have invaded all levels of government. Unfortunately Acharya S’ has it wrong. We are not smuggling uranium ore from Washington; we are mining it in Moab, Utah. Next, we have not been testing in Australia. Come on man, who do you think was doing all that testing in the Nevada desert, Uncle Sam? Anyhow, we are going to use our thermonuclear arsenal to blackmail the US government into returning the Louisiana Territory back to the DWVBC. In exchange, we will have exclusive rights to the Louisiana Hot Sauce market.
If you don’t believe any of this, then just Google Joseph Smith, Cain, Able, Duke of Wellington, Gebhard Von Blucher, Cloris Leachman, Frau Blucher, Louisiana Territory, Thermonuclear, Duke of Earl, Dukes of Hazard, Waterloo, Normandy, Moab, Utah and Louisiana Hot Sauce, and you will see they all exists. What more do you need as proof? Oh, Oh, I almost forgot; you can rent the movie Young Frankenstein and see the proof with your own eyes.
Last edited by SergeantL; 05-27-2007 at 09:39 AM..
Galatians 1:6-9 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7) which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8) But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9) As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
No.. Mormons are not Christians. They are moral and wonderful people.. but Joespeh Smith was a perverter of the Gospel. A false prophet.
WOW, pladecalvo, what an exposé! Unfortunately, Acharya S’ is only scratching the surface. Let me give you the whole story:
The Mormon Church is really only a cover story. You see, right after the Louisiana Purchase, Spain was angry, because when it ceded the territory to Napoleon and France, there was a line in the original cede document stipulating that France could not give the territory to anyone else. Since you are in Spain, I am sure you are aware of this fact.
Well, in any event, because there was a breech of contract, Napoleon paid Spain a kizzillion dollars, which he borrowed from Josephine’s uncle on her mother’s third cousin’s side of the family. Now, not only did this uncle run a pawn shop in the area of Normandy, which is another story, he was also a direct descendant of the last Knights Templar.
Next, Napoleon defaulted on the loan, so the uncle sold the loan to the Duke of Wellington at a discount, with the understanding that the Duke and Gebhard Von Blucher would defeat Napoleon at the Battle of Waterloo. As a short side note, Blucher’s great, great, granddaughter would be instrumental in bringing about Young Frankenstein using the stage name of Cloris Leachman as Frau Blucher. It is also rumored that the Duke used some of Blucher’s mother’s money to buy the original Napoleonic pawn ticket, but this cannot be confirmed.
Well, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, but it turns out the Duke, Von Blucher, and the uncle were all related through Eve’s side of the family, but contrary to popular belief, not through Cain or Able. Their line was from later children. Once they discovered this, they made a pact to get the Louisiana Territory back. Anyhow, they hired agents in the United States; all of which have been related to the Duke of Wellington in one way or another, such as the Duke of Earl, and the Dukes of Hazard. These agents scoured the country looking for ways to get the Louisiana Territory into their control.
One day they stumbled across Joseph Smith. They hired him to create a new religion and get everyone to move to the Utah Territory. The plan was diabolically simple. Once everyone was in Utah, the Duke of Wellington, Von Blucher consortium (DWVBC) as it was now known, would move in, subdivide the property, and sell Barbeque and Cajon Music franchises. Well, as we know, Joseph Smith was only partially successful, so the plan has changed.
As you can see from Acharya S’ page, the Mormons have invaded all levels of government. Unfortunately Acharya S’ has it wrong. We are not smuggling uranium ore from Washington; we are mining it in Moab, Utah. Next, we have not been testing in Australia. Come on man, who do you think was doing all that testing in the Nevada desert, Uncle Sam? Anyhow, we are going to use our thermonuclear arsenal to blackmail the US government into returning the Louisiana Territory back to the DWVBC. In exchange, we will have exclusive rights to the Louisiana Hot Sauce market.
If you don’t believe any of this, then just Google Joseph Smith, Cain, Able, Duke of Wellington, Gebhard Von Blucher, Cloris Leachman, Frau Blucher, Louisiana Territory, Thermonuclear, Duke of Earl, Dukes of Hazard, Waterloo, Normandy, Moab, Utah and Louisiana Hot Sauce, and you will see they all exists. What more do you need as proof? Oh, Oh, I almost forgot; you can rent the movie Young Frankenstein and see the proof with your own eyes.
Oh My Gosh! That has to be the best post I have ever read! lol, I am glad there are people like you in the world who can relate history so well
Galatians 1:6-9 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7) which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8) But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9) As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
No.. Mormons are not Christians. They are moral and wonderful people.. but Joespeh Smith was a perverter of the Gospel. A false prophet.
Give me one area where he has solidly contradicted the Bible and I will believe you. Actually, the counsil of Nicea would be the area I would be most worried about, after the death of Christ and the murder of the apostles, several preists and polititions met together and "re-established" Christ's gospel. Many comprimises were made in this counsel so many ideas were lost, therefore modern Christianity is not complete. Mormonism is the only religion I know of which combats the councel of Nicea and attemts to recieve true revelation from Christ. If Mormonism is corrupt, so is the rest of Christianity, for all who follow the Bible are victims of the Nicean Creed. If this be the case then let us all be damned together, there's no need to condemn one another if we're all destined for Hell.
do mormons worship the God of the Bible? or a different God?
Yes but they teach a false doctrin that has nothing to do with the BIBLE they call it "another testament of JESUS CHRIST" but this is not true otherwise it would be a part of the BIBLE thus we would have three testaments instead of two and the writtings of the BIBLE completly out shin the book of mormon. the BIBLE even tells us "if we hear of another JESUS other than what the BIBLE has told us then it is false and of the devil."
Yes but they teach a false doctrine that has nothing to do with the BIBLE.
OK, relate a false doctrine. I think you will have difficulty. I am quite certain you do not know the doctrines of the Mormon faith beyond what you have been told by non-Mormons. I give you a challenge. Don’t worry; you won’t go to Hell for accepting. Call the LDS Missionaries in your area and sit through the lessons. Once you have the basics, come back and we can intelligently debate Mormon Doctrine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi
they call it "another testament of JESUS CHRIST" but this is not true otherwise it would be a part of the BIBLE thus we would have three testaments instead of two and the writings of the BIBLE completely outshines the Book of Mormon.
Next, you need to ponder the following from Ezekiel 37
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
And, since you say the Bible outshines the Book of Mormon, I assume you have read both, not just one. Be honest, now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi
the BIBLE even tells us "if we hear of another JESUS other than what the BIBLE has told us then it is false and of the devil."
And what “other” Jesus does the LDS faith preach? We all believe in the Jesus of the New Testament. If you want to talk about the Trinity, then mainstream Christianity is in big trouble. As my esteemed colleague Maniac pointed out, the First Council of Nicea defined the nature of God, not Jesus himself.
Give me one area where he has solidly contradicted the Bible and I will believe you. Actually, the counsil of Nicea would be the area I would be most worried about, after the death of Christ and the murder of the apostles, several preists and polititions met together and "re-established" Christ's gospel. Many comprimises were made in this counsel so many ideas were lost, therefore modern Christianity is not complete. Mormonism is the only religion I know of which combats the councel of Nicea and attemts to recieve true revelation from Christ. If Mormonism is corrupt, so is the rest of Christianity, for all who follow the Bible are victims of the Nicean Creed. If this be the case then let us all be damned together, there's no need to condemn one another if we're all destined for Hell.
We already have.
Jesus Christ
According to Mormon teaching, at one point in the eternities past, this man-become-God, or "Heavenly Father," begat the spirit body of his first son. Together with his heavenly wife, the Father raised his son in the council of the gods.
Before the creation of this world, Jesus Christ presented to his father a plan of salvation which would enable the billions of future human beings the opportunity of passing through mortality and returning to heaven, there to become gods of their own worlds. At the same time, another son of the Heavenly Father and brother of Christ offered a competing plan. When Christ’s was chosen, the rejected Lucifer led a rebellion of one-third of the population of the heavens and was cast out.
In time, Mormons believe, the Heavenly Father came to earth and had physical, sexual intercourse with the Virgin Mary. Rejecting both the testimony of Scripture (Luke 1:34-35) and the constant teaching of the Christian Church, Mormons believe Christ was conceived by the Father, and not by the Holy Spirit. (Journal of Discourses 2:268.)
Moreover, Mormons teach that Christ is a secondary, inferior god. He does not exist from all eternity. (Nor, for that matter, does his Father.) He was first made by a union of his heavenly parents. After having been reared and taught in the heavens, he achieved a certain divine stature. Through carnal relations with her Heavenly Father, the Virgin became pregnant with this lesser god.
Mormons now believe that Christ’s divinity is virtually equal to that of his Father’s. As we have seen, this is a compromised godhood: Jesus Christ merely joins the end of a long line of gods who have preceded him, an infinite "regression" of divine beings whose origin Mormons cannot explain. (Nor, for that matter, can they explain its end, as we will see when we discuss the doctrine of men becoming gods.)
The Holy Ghost
The LDS church teaches that all men must pass through mortality in human bodies before they can reach godhood. Yet their third, separate god, called the Holy Ghost, has not yet received a mortal body, even though he is considered to be another god. Mormon theology typically does not address this contradiction.
However, that’s not to say that the Holy Ghost is without any body. In fact, he has a "spiritual body," in the actual shape of a man, with head, torso, and limbs. He can be in only one place at once (in this he’s no different from his two superiors in the Mormon "Godhead.")
Though to the Holy Ghost is now ascribed the power of each Mormon’s individual "testimony" or feeling concerning the truth of Mormon doctrines, he was not always so honored. In fact, Joseph Smith originally acknowledged only two divine personages, referring to the Holy Ghost merely as the "mind" of the two. (Lectures on Faith, 48-49.)
Latter-Day Saints do not believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the only three gods there are. Rather, they believe in (though do not worship) a "plurality" of gods, gods without number, each one ruling his own creation. Thus, the three separate gods who rule our universe are finite in power—they sustain and govern only a tiny portion of all that exists.
The other gods have either preceded or followed the Heavenly Father who organized our world. In fact, men living today on this planet will one day become gods of their own universes. As such, they will mate with heavenly wives, beget spirit children, populate new worlds, and receive the worship and obedience we are now expected to give to our particular, current God.
Smith—And All Men—To Be Gods
The Mormon founder taught that faithful Mormon men can ascend to divinity. In the King Follett Discourse, Joseph Smith said, "My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same. And when I get to my kingdom [godhood], I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself."
In any discussion with a Mormon about Mormonism’s conflicting teachings on the nature of God, you have to cut away the camouflage. You have to get to the central facts. It’s simple, really. Just show them how the Book of Mormon conflicts with Smith’s later teachings. If he was right about God, when was he right? Take your pick, but you can’t pick both, and neither can a Mormon, except if he uses doublethink. If a Mormon chooses either teaching as correct and admits the other must be wrong, Smith’s credibility as a prophet collapses.
Ro 3:28 -
For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Ro 5:1 -
Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro 10:4 -
For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
Ga 2:16 -
yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified.
Ga 3:11 -
Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live";
Ga 3:24 -
So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.
Jas 2:24 -
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
John 1:1-4
1 In R1 the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
You will hold to something that was made up around 200 years ago... as apposed to something that is over 2000 years old? Something that Joseph Smith came up with alone as apposed to 1000's of supporting documents for the bible? Why?
Joseph Smith asserted that the golden plates were translated "by the power of God" and produced "the most correct of any book on earth." And Joseph F. Smith, by the way, the sixth president of the Mormon church, went so far as to say that the words were not only correct but that "every letter was given to [Joseph Smith] by the gift and power of God." But the reality is this: the Book of Mormon has had to be corrected thousands of times to compensate for Smith's poor grammar and spelling. The Book of Mormon is fraught with all kinds of other errors as well. For example, "Benjamin" was changed to "Mosiah" after Mormon leaders finally realized that in the chronology of the Book of Mormon King Benjamin had already died so he would have been hard pressed to "interpret" the engravings mentioned in Mosiah 21:28. Perhaps the greatest crack in the credibility of the Book of Mormon is that whole sections were derived directly from the King James Version of the Bible and that despite the fact that according to Mormon chronology, the Book of Mormon predates the King James Version by more than a thousand years.
Next, you need to ponder the following from Ezekiel 37
This chapter has nothing to do with Joseph in regards to the mormon church. It has to do with the rejoining of the tribes of Israel that were separated over the years and which would be ruled by David. It has no reference to the forecoming of the mormon church either.
Next, you need to ponder the following from Ezekiel 37
This chapter has nothing to do with Joseph in regards to the mormon church. It has to do with the rejoining of the tribes of Israel that were separated over the years and which would be ruled by David. It has no reference to the forecoming of the mormon church either.
I said ponder the passage. I said nothing about it referring the formation of the “Mormon Church.” Now, since you are on the topic, ask yourself what a “stick” is.
According to Mormon teaching, at one point in the eternities past, this man-become-God, or "Heavenly Father," begat the spirit body of his first son. Together with his heavenly wife, the Father raised his son in the council of the gods.
Before the creation of this world, Jesus Christ presented to his father a plan of salvation which would enable the billions of future human beings the opportunity of passing through mortality and returning to heaven, there to become gods of their own worlds. At the same time, another son of the Heavenly Father and brother of Christ offered a competing plan. When Christ’s was chosen, the rejected Lucifer led a rebellion of one-third of the population of the heavens and was cast out.
In time, Mormons believe, the Heavenly Father came to earth and had physical, sexual intercourse with the Virgin Mary. Rejecting both the testimony of Scripture (Luke 1:34-35) and the constant teaching of the Christian Church, Mormons believe Christ was conceived by the Father, and not by the Holy Spirit. (Journal of Discourses 2:268.)
Moreover, Mormons teach that Christ is a secondary, inferior god. He does not exist from all eternity. (Nor, for that matter, does his Father.) He was first made by a union of his heavenly parents. After having been reared and taught in the heavens, he achieved a certain divine stature. Through carnal relations with her Heavenly Father, the Virgin became pregnant with this lesser god.
Mormons now believe that Christ’s divinity is virtually equal to that of his Father’s. As we have seen, this is a compromised godhood: Jesus Christ merely joins the end of a long line of gods who have preceded him, an infinite "regression" of divine beings whose origin Mormons cannot explain. (Nor, for that matter, can they explain its end, as we will see when we discuss the doctrine of men becoming gods.)
I have highlighted blatant falsehoods. I can see you have done a great cut and paste job, from some website, but you have not made any effort to confirm these assertions with LDS members.
Next, neither you nor anyone else can explain the origin of God and neither does the Book of Mormon nor the Bible.
The Holy Ghost
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibcwife
The LDS church teaches that all men must pass through mortality in human bodies before they can reach godhood. Yet their third, separate god, called the Holy Ghost, has not yet received a mortal body, even though he is considered to be another god. Mormon theology typically does not address this contradiction.
Once again you have not delved very deep. Our theology does in fact explain that even the Holy Ghost will need to obtain a physical body and pass through mortality, just as Christ did, or do you deny that Christ had a physical body and submitted Himself to Baptism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibcwife
Ro 3:28 -
For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Ro 5:1 -
Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro 10:4 -
For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
Ga 2:16 -
yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified.
Ga 3:11 -
Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live";
Ga 3:24 -
So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.
Jas 2:24 -
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
I am not going to go any further with this, because it is obvious that you have simply cruised websites and cut information without any understanding. You have not shown me anything that I haven’t heard before. I will say one thing, I don’t know why you posted Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. You just made the LDS case.
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