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Well, ok, I googled some various websites about Christian universalism, and they make some good points. It's certainly a comfortable line of reasoning and doctirine. But, frankly, I just don't think it lines up Biblically with what the whole of scripture teaches. There are also other websites that would dispute some of their interpretations about words that are used in the Greek or at least the way they use them to formulate the doctrine of universalism.
In short, I understand, CelticLady1, why this doctrine is attractive, but I again, I just don't think it is consistent with the WHOLE of scripture.
I feel odd here arguing "for" hell. I HATE the concept of hell!! But I do think scripture does not teach a "second chance after death" doctrine so to speak.
Well, in all fairness, I wasn't too sure about universalism myself, at first. And, I'm well aware that the majority of Christians don't, and absolutely will not, accept the idea, and that's okay. It goes against everything I had been taught to believe. But, I didn't just read one or two articles, or even a web site or two. I read, thought, researched, studied, and prayed about it for months. I compared all that I knew, and had been taught about hell, as opposed to this idea, (which is not a new one, by the way. It's been around for centuries). I didn't simply decide, in a few hours, or a few days, that this was the right concept, and I'm certainly not saying everyone should believe it. You should hold onto your own beliefs, if they make you comfortable and sure, and give you the hope you need, and the "Good News" you want to share with others.
Yes, I know that most Christians would say that universalism is a devil's deception, etc., etc.... I thought about all that. I prayed earnestly that I would not be led astray, and still this made sense. Now, y'all can say that I still didn't pray earnestly enough, and that I still have been deceived, and that is your perogative, (if a bit judgemental). All I can tell you, is what I believe. So, if you're okay with believing in an eternal hell, (by the way, I never said there might not be punishment. Two different concepts), then by all means, carry on. But, if someone has the slightest misgivings about the concept of hell, then I simply think it makes good sense to do more research, in as open-minded a way as possible. Oh, and one other thing, lest you think I was deliberately looking for arguments against hell; I wasn't. I actually stumbled across it, as I was doing research on the concept of tithing. Arguing against hell, was the last thing on my mind. Ahh, I know, I was led to this "heresy". Well, personally, I don't give Satan that much credit. But, I'm sure y'all will!
satan has been given the label great deciever and it is a well deserved label. he sneaks into our thoughts without us being aware and when those thoughts turn to actions, he has us in his grip unless we recognize what is happening.
he is not going to shout out hey, i am coming to get you...no...he knows that won't work. So, he is subtle, finding our weaknesses and little by little he exploits them and unless we keep the Word with us every day and unless we continously pray and seek His guidance, we will find ourselves falling into a pit of sin. This is satans victory. he is the silent killer.
satan has been given the label great deciever and it is a well deserved label. he sneaks into our thoughts without us being aware and when those thoughts turn to actions, he has us in his grip unless we recognize what is happening.
he is not going to shout out hey, i am coming to get you...no...he knows that won't work. So, he is subtle, finding our weaknesses and little by little he exploits them and unless we keep the Word with us every day and unless we continously pray and seek His guidance, we will find ourselves falling into a pit of sin. This is satans victory. he is the silent killer.
Please don't take offence with my post, it was not directed at you.
We all fall into this catagory at one time or another in our lives. We are all sinners no matter how much we love Christ.
Again, this was not directed at you, and you were not singled out when I wrote this post.
Actually, I was more amused than offended, 'though your comment coming of the heels of my post about universalism, and my statements about knowing that many of you would think I have been "led astray by Satan", (was I wrong?), did indeed, seem to have been directed at me. Honestly, I don't care if it was or wasn't. Like I said, I was more amused. So, no worries!
Wow! Everything has pretty much been said already!
But, Beth...this is just not true! We ARE assured of salvation! It is OURS for the taking!. AND we ARE saved by God's GRACE! Saying you do not believe these things mean you do not believe in God or His deity!
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
2 Corinthians 12:8-10
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
1 Thessalonians 5:8-9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
2 Timothy 3:15-16
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I'm sorry, but if you do not have assurance of your salvation, you really need to seek further and BE ASSURED!
If someone comes up and asks you:
"If you die TODAY will you go to Heaven?"...You should NOT have a problem with replying:
"YES YES YES, I know down in my HEART that I have been SAVED through the GRACE OF GOD and Jesus' sacrifice on the cross...I KNOW I AM GOING TO HEAVEN!"
Catholics believe that the Bible teaches that one cannot just profess faith once and then be eternally secure. One must live out this faith by a life of obedicence and good works.
James 2:17-18: Faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. I, by my works will show you my faith.
Catholics believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them.
Catholics and Protestants have a differnt view of salvation, as well as justification and sanctification.
Catholics believe that the Bible teaches that one cannot just profess faith once and then be eternally secure. One must live out this faith by a life of obedicence and good works.
James 2:17-18: Faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. I, by my works will show you my faith.
Catholics believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them.
Catholics and Protestants have a differnt view of salvation, as well as justification and sanctification.
Catholics believe that the Bible teaches that one cannot just profess faith once and then be eternally secure. One must live out this faith by a life of obedicence and good works.
James 2:17-18: Faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. I, by my works will show you my faith.
Catholics believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them.
Catholics and Protestants have a differnt view of salvation, as well as justification and sanctification.
There's one thing I've always wondered about this. How do you know if you've done enough? No one can do enough to be perfect, so are you in a state of uncertainty about your salvation?
I believe once you accept Jesus as your Saviour, the works come naturally. We love Him, and therefore, want to try and live our lives as He did.
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judgemental). All I can tell you, is what I believe. So, if you're okay with believing in an eternal hell, (by the way, I never said there might not be punishment. Two different concepts), then by all means, carry on. But, if someone has the slightest misgivings about the concept of hell, then I simply think it makes good sense to do more research, in as open-minded a way as possible. Oh, and one other thing, lest you think I was deliberately looking for arguments against hell; I wasn't. I actually stumbled across it, as I was doing research on the concept of tithing. Arguing against hell, was the last thing on my mind. Ahh, I know, I was led to this "heresy". Well, personally, I don't give Satan that much credit. But, I'm sure y'all will!
'though your comment coming of the heels of my post about universalism, and my statements about knowing that many of you would think I have been "led astray by Satan",
Like I said, I was more amused. So, no worries!
