Jehovah's Witnesses-What do they really believe? (soul, Baptist, trinity, bishop)

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

John 21:24-25 "This is that disciple who saw these events and recorded them here. And we all know that his account of these things is accurate. And I suppose that if all the other things Jesus did were written down, the whole world could not contain the books".

Thanks, ILNC.

It's a little weird that the author of John, the one Gospel writer who almost certainly could not have heard Jesus speak based on how new his book was in comparison to the others, would say this with such authority. But that's food for another thread...

Thanks for the answer, ILNC.

[robinhood]

Originally Posted by kaykay

I think, so far the most significant difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and orthodox Christianity is that Jesus is NOT viewed the same. Jehovah's Witnesses call Jesus "the son of God" but not God. He is not viewed as equal with God.

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. I am a christian and have been, for about 20 years, since I was 12 years old, and I only use the Bible as my reference. I believe that Jesus is the son of God. But how can he be God too? That would make him his own father wouldn't it?

[robinhood]

Alice - Does the Jehovah's Witness use any other text other than the Bible? Also, do you believe that we are to live today by the teachings of the New Testament?

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Where does it say this? I know the NT mentions that Jesus taught the apostles specifically some things that he didn't teach the crowds. Is this what you're referring to?

I haven't been on here since last night, so I didn't see your post until just now. But yes, ILNC referenced the verse I was talking about.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by robinhood

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. I am a christian and have been, for about 20 years, since I was 12 years old, and I only use the Bible as my reference. I believe that Jesus is the son of God. But how can he be God too? That would make him his own father wouldn't it?

I know you were addressing your post to KayKay, but I just thought I'd add my thoughts about this.

Basically, it's a mystery. There are simply things we don't understand with our limited minds, and one of those is how 3 separate beings can still be the same being. But if it helps (it kinda helps me), one way to think of it is to imagine you have a pitcher of water, and 3 glasses, on a table. The water inside the pitcher represents the essence of God. That is, the water in it's fullness, by its very nature and composition, is God with all His abilities. Now, if you pour equal amounts of that water into each glass, does the nature and composition of the water change? No. It's still water. It still retains all the qualities which make it water. The difference is that you now have 3 separate containers of that water, and each container on its own is basically a unique fullness of the water, capable of acquiring its own "identity" (so to speak) and fully able to exist anywhere else without the need for the other glasses to be present. Likewise, any glass can be be poured in with the water of another glass and still be water, without losing it's nature and composition. You've simply mixed the water back together.

Now, I realize that is probably a bit of a crude illustration, but it makes me realize that there are possibilities that may exist, which I may not comprehend in full. But it also helps me to picture something in a way that opens my mind to the possibility of its reality. (If that makes sense.) In other words, it helps me to realize that simply because I don't fully comprehend something, that doesn't mean it's an impossibility.

[robinhood]

Actually that does make good sense WCRob. That was a great example to use. It gives me something to ponder and research. One day I was talking with a friend of mine who is pentecostal and she told me that they believe that the father , the son, and the holy spirit were all the same entity as "one thing". I didn't understand this, but the way you put it sounds logical. I had always learned that we had the God head and the others were like branches off of the head. One was part of the other, but it was three different entities. I love the way you explained your thoughts as a friend trying to help others understand. Many posters get all upset when one questions them on something. My philosophy is that the only way to learn is to ask questions and research.

[Teach07]

Water can be ice, liquid water or vapor..but it is still water. We are mind, body and spirit beings to begin with. To understand the trinity, look at yourself. The complexity of the human mind, our conscioussness, our flesh...all things to consider.

[seschris]

Originally Posted by Teach07

This is an honest questions, do not be offended, but should you even be on here? This would be considered fellowship w/ non believers, unless of course you count this towards your ministry hours and you are logging the hours in as field service hours.

I dont know what teachings of Christ you studies, but I have done this as well and I do not see any alignment with Christ and the JW religion. They are one of the many religions that you speak of that contradict themselves left and right from the Russelites to now. Do the history on your organization and the true origin of Christ. Seperation and superiority do not exist in the spiritual realm, man has created this. Just ask Charles Taze Russell. Christ never changed, so why has your organization over the years. You used to celebrate Xmas, you used to donate blood, you used to predict years for the end of the world. You take apocalytic literature and intepret it literally. Read the Nag Hammadi libraries found in the Dead Sea scroll found in the 1940's- there are several books similar to Revelation because literature as that was popular at the time, and the only reason they dont exist in your Bible is because the early church chose books that would shape the face of Christianity due to power, and politics. This is the only reason why you have some books in the Bible and others that arent. I am not saying anything that you can not research for yourself.
What JW's do is prey on people who are distraught from religions, need to be spiritually fed, and indoctrinate them with tedious teachings that are false. They give them fellowship and brotherhood. It is a much more mental thing that a spritual one.
And no, I do not believe in man made religions (ALL OF THEM), I do not celebrate holidays either, and I believe in God, Jesus and all other great teachers who have walked this earth. Only when I was able to stop being brainwashed by man was I able to find true peace, knowledge and understanding. Religion was created to enhance the idea of seperation from God, to create order and keep power from the masses. Read the Gospel of St Thomas or other forgotten Bible books and you will see a very different loving Christ that the early church did not want others to see.
This is pointless.
I understand your reason for coming here. I just get so upset when people fall victim to religion and they are buried undearneath layers so deep its impossible. Simplicity and basic is the soul..so for all of your teachings and documents, it is not the point to be a scholar, but to be genuine. If you do not go within, you go without. My salvation will never lay outside of me and in the hands of an organization. And if you think Jehovah God is a conditional God and that you are the only truth when it is known that superiority and seperation, ignorance, need, etc are all illusions that man have created to deal with their apparent spirituality problem, then so be it. I will pray for you.

Funny you should start off discussing JW spiritual separation issues...I also noticed that instead of replying to the other thread where this conversation orignated that a "separate" thread was created just to discuss Jehovah Witness beliefs. NO MATTER WHAT...THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD!!!!

Just observing.

[Teach07]

Originally Posted by seschris

Funny you should start off discussing JW spiritual separation issues...I also noticed that instead of replying to the other thread where this conversation orignated that a "separate" thread was created just to discuss Jehovah Witness beliefs. NO MATTER WHAT...THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD!!!!

Just observing.

I never said there was multiple Gods. I believe in one source, one god only. If I say it is in all of us, I, again am not referring to God in the plural sense. As for rephrasing what I discussed above, that was last week when it was the JW forum. If the thread has changed since then, it was after. My comments regarding JW's wasa specific towards the people I was speaking/engaged to at the time. I am not sure of what you are talking about at all.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by WCRob

I suppose I should have tied this question in with #3. What I meant was, the Catholic church was already in place long before the formation of the WTS. But as you claim, there was no organization (what JW's believe to be the WTS) on earth to which true believers could turn for guidance and correct doctrine, so how do you know they didn't err at some point along the way? To whom did they turn for guidance, if not the Catholic Church?



You say without an organized society, it would be impossible for the good news to be preached in the same way as the first century Christians. So you're basically stating that the true gospel message wasn't preached accurately until the 1800s? What happened during all the centuries previous to that?

As I stated above, there WAS an organization on earth during that time.....the Catholic Church.



Are you sure?

The Bible tells us there were many things that Jesus said (and by extension, things He taught) that were not written down. Were those teachings less valid than the ones that were recorded in Scripture?



What references are you using that show the teachings and practices of the true church were abandoned by the 3rd century?



In your previous post, you stated "There were actually many (meaning Jehovah's Witnesses) during this time that went against the common beliefs of the churches in those days and refused to compromise their faith." Now you are saying there is no evidence those were churches. So what did you mean?

Yes, you are right. The Catholic church was there at an early time. But by the 3rd century, professed Christians had adapted so much Greek philosphy into their teachings and traditions, there was little similarity to the congregations in bible times. I have made a personal study of the search that mankind made for God during those times and can honestly say that it is one of the darkest times in history. Christianity strayed so far from Christ's teachings and such horrible things were done in the name of religion. And that confusion and mayhem continued for centuries. Even 'the reformation' did not solve the problem, though there were may people who were truly trying to please God. Of all the sects and scisms that developed, there were many men who were working from 'pieces' of truth but fear of death prevented them from moving forward with their knowledge. History tells it all. It was impossible for there to be an organized society of true worshipers at this time because the large churches squashed anything they considered 'threatening'.

Yes, the truth of God's word was preached in small groups. Jehovah would never have allowed it to die entirely but fear of man prevented it from taking hold during those times. I think the anabaptists, for instance, were a zealous group who honestly wanted to please God but they too turned to violence eventually. I think more out of frustration than anything else.