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If you are worshiping for the people, you might as well stay home.
Tell me more about what the bible says and I'll try and answer this. I know the original twelve disciples had disagreements, so that will be a tough one.
Many churches.
I'm not sure what you mean by tolerate, but if you mean have mercy upon sinners then, if you don't 'tolerate' these things then you aren't preaching as Jesus said do, as you boasted in your first question.
Ah, key word there, religion. I want none of that, thanks! Just give me God and His Son, you can keep your religion.
If it's the same love reflected in this post, thanks but no thanks. There was only one thing that hung and died for my salvation, Jesus Christ. And I'm not hanging good works, right words, or right building up there with Him. My salvation is by Him, through Him and of Him...and Him ALONE!
Alpha, that was an unfair stab at a man who is obviously very happy w/ his beliefs. It's obvious he was stating the way he felt for my benefit, since we are related in the faith and I am the one that started the forum. He wasnt trying to open up a debate with you. So again, that was LOW.
But if you'd care to discuss:
Can you tell me why you have such animosity for the Witnesses? I mean, you said you don't think ANY religion is doing God's will. Can you tell us what you feel we are doing wrong? I'd be interested in knowing.
Also, evidently SSC was very sincere in his love for his fellow worshippers and somehow this rubbed you the wrong way. Do you think the early Christians felt any different about their spiritual brothers and sisters than he does?
What possible negativity could you have towards the idea of unity? The first century Christians were told they must be unified and we follow that admonition. This doesnt mean you don't disagree at times as imperfect people, but the principles of God's word guide your life and this does make you unified. Our worldwide brotherhood is actually very respected.
You also mentioned that many churches show the love that Christ showed. Okay, can you name the other churches that refuse to go to war because they do not think they have the right to kill another human? Full organizations and religions that will go to prison happily as a group instead of doing so? Jehovah's Witnesses thru the years have died willingly for their brothers instead of revealing their whereabouts in times of persecution.
'Tolerate' is a word that is thrown around alot. In this instance, SSC means that we do not accept the practice of sin in our congregation and we practice disfellowshipping to keep the congregation clean. God has moral standards that must be upheld and this is a biblical practice. This does not mean that we do not welcome back repentant ones with open arms and pray every day that they will return like the prodigal son. And in many cases, they do. We are steadily growing in spite of this arrangment, regardless.
You have strong opinions, I understand. But instead of belittling someone for their beliefs, perhaps you could be a little more constructive.
Alpha, that was an unfair stab at a man who is obviously very happy w/ his beliefs. It's obvious he was stating the way he felt for my benefit, since we are related in the faith and I am the one that started the forum. He wasnt trying to open up a debate with you. So again, that was LOW.
But if you'd care to discuss:
Can you tell me why you have such animosity for the Witnesses? I mean, you said you don't think ANY religion is doing God's will. Can you tell us what you feel we are doing wrong? I'd be interested in knowing.
Also, evidently SSC was very sincere in his love for his fellow worshippers and somehow this rubbed you the wrong way. Do you think the early Christians felt any different about their spiritual brothers and sisters than he does?
What possible negativity could you have towards the idea of unity? The first century Christians were told they must be unified and we follow that admonition. This doesnt mean you don't disagree at times as imperfect people, but the principles of God's word guide your life and this does make you unified. Our worldwide brotherhood is actually very respected.
You also mentioned that many churches show the love that Christ showed. Okay, can you name the other churches that refuse to go to war because they do not think they have the right to kill another human? Full organizations and religions that will go to prison happily as a group instead of doing so? Jehovah's Witnesses thru the years have died willingly for their brothers instead of revealing their whereabouts in times of persecution.
'Tolerate' is a word that is thrown around alot. In this instance, SSC means that we do not accept the practice of sin in our congregation and we practice disfellowshipping to keep the congregation clean. God has moral standards that must be upheld and this is a biblical practice. This does not mean that we do not welcome back repentant ones with open arms and pray every day that they will return like the prodigal son. And in many cases, they do. We are steadily growing in spite of this arrangment, regardless.
You have strong opinions, I understand. But instead of belittling someone for their beliefs, perhaps you could be a little more constructive.
I don't understand your post, alice. I wasn't making a stab at anyone. And I was belittling anyone. SSC is entitled to his/her opinions and I totally respect that. I also don't have any animosity towards the witnesses, although I do believe that their theology is seriously flawed.
I think your view of my post may be skewed since you are a JW. SSC's post, like it or not, was implying and stating that the only folks that have it right are the witnesses. My post was stating that that's incorrect. He asked the questions in his post, and I responded. I thought that's what we do here. Sorry if you think that was taking a stab.
Also, where did you get I would have a problem with unity? I just want SSC to explain what he/she means by the unity 'the bible talks about'.
Regarding war, still think you've misread me but didn't Jehovah God himself order wars in scripture? Doesn't Ecclesiastes teach that there's a time and season for everything?
I don't mind you disagreeing with me on any point I make. But I take issue with someone stating that my opinions somehow make me 'LOW' as you put it, where does that fit into the Witnesses doctrine?? Anyway, like I said, the questions were asked in SSC's post and I responded. Sorry you got offended for SSC.
Alpha, that was an unfair stab at a man who is obviously very happy w/ his beliefs. It's obvious he was stating the way he felt for my benefit, since we are related in the faith and I am the one that started the forum. He wasnt trying to open up a debate with you. So again, that was LOW.
One other thought too, alice, if SSC was making that post for your benefit and your benefit alone, then I would think a PM would have been more appropriate and I wouldn't have responded.
Just a thought. I missed the sentence that I have bolded in your post. The threads are public, PMs are not.
I don't understand your post, alice. I wasn't making a stab at anyone. And I was belittling anyone. SSC is entitled to his/her opinions and I totally respect that. I also don't have any animosity towards the witnesses, although I do believe that their theology is seriously flawed.
I think your view of my post may be skewed since you are a JW. SSC's post, like it or not, was implying and stating that the only folks that have it right are the witnesses. My post was stating that that's incorrect. He asked the questions in his post, and I responded. I thought that's what we do here. Sorry if you think that was taking a stab.
Also, where did you get I would have a problem with unity? I just want SSC to explain what he/she means by the unity 'the bible talks about'.
Regarding war, still think you've misread me but didn't Jehovah God himself order wars in scripture? Doesn't Ecclesiastes teach that there's a time and season for everything?
I don't mind you disagreeing with me on any point I make. But I take issue with someone stating that my opinions somehow make me 'LOW' as you put it, where does that fit into the Witnesses doctrine?? Anyway, like I said, the questions were asked in SSC's post and I responded. Sorry you got offended for SSC.
I don't think anyone who read your post would think you were not being extremely negative. And unnecessarily so since he was obviously raising those questions rhetorically and not really pushing for debate. He was stating his personal opinion and obviously he DOES think JW are the only ones who have it right or he would not be one. But whatever.
Most Christians know that Jehovah God did away w/ the need for war after the coming and sacrificing of his son. And those wars were holy wars...guided by God himself and sometimes not even involving actual conflict since on several occasions he used his own angels. As you probably know, Jehovah does not speak to his servants personally anymore...he allows the bible to do that. Jesus' own attitude about conflict is evidence of this. He preached that love would conquer all. The 'unity' that SSC was speaking about is in relation to that love he spoke of. The scriptures say 'by their love you will recognize them'...speaking about Christ's true followers. Jesus said his followers were also to 'speak in agreement' and be 'of one mind'. Let me know if you'd like me to site the actual scriptures.
And please don't misconstrue my comment. I stated it was 'low' to belittle someone for their opinions or beliefs and I never intended for you to feel that I was calling you- as a person- 'low'. It isnt in me to do that. The little sad face was supposed to convey that I was disappointed you would do that...I guess you felt I was being mean. And I apologize.
One other thought too, alice, if SSC was making that post for your benefit and your benefit alone, then I would think a PM would have been more appropriate and I wouldn't have responded.
Just a thought. I missed the sentence that I have bolded in your post. The threads are public, PMs are not.
Perhaps you are right. But something about the way he worded his entry made me feel he was simply stating his own experience and the questions were what led him to conclude that he had found the truth. I still don't think he was trying to start a debate.
Something else: I am told on a semi-daily basis that Jehovah's Witnesses have 'flawed theology' by persons I speak to in my ministry. However most of these people are simply told that by their preachers and don't really know why we believe the way we do. For the ones who allow us to actually show them from the scriptures what we base that theology on, we usually find that people are overwhelmingly receptive to the reasons and agree that they make a lot of sense.
Last edited by alicenevada; 06-21-2007 at 10:21 AM..
I am probably wrong here, but I read and reread Alpha and SSC posts to each other..I don't think they were mad at each other at all and didn't notice SSC being upset and thinking he was being insulted. I think both posters were trying to understand each others ideas. I was forced to be a JW for several years and I can objectively debate the brliefs, but choose not to, because I respect all the different beliefs posted in this forum..We listen to each other, sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't, so we just agree to disagree and go on..
I really understand about taking up for your "spiritual" family, Alice, we seem to be on the same wave length. I feel the same way about all my family of believers as in all the different churches, temples, mosques and synagogues in this world. I find myself also "taking up" for my non believing friends too. I just can't forget that commandment about loving your neighbor as yourself. That is right up there with my nexr favorite about not judging.
I'm gonna leave all this 'stuff' regarding my post alone and if SSC wants to debate it, we'll see if SSC responds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada
Most Christians know that Jehovah God did away w/ the need for war after the coming and sacrificing of his son. And those wars were holy wars...guided by God himself and sometimes not even involving actual conflict since on several occasions he used his own angels. As you probably know, Jehovah does not speak to his servants personally anymore...he allows the bible to do that. Jesus' own attitude about conflict is evidence of this. He preached that love would conquer all.
Apparently most Christians don't know this and truthfully I think standing by while crimes against humanity are being committed and doing nothing is actually non-Christian. You think Jesus would have us just stand by during genocide or other atrocities? That He would expect us to ask really nicely to cease and desist? I don't get that at all. We're the body of Christ. We're the arms and legs for God. I'm not finding fault and if JWs don't want to go to war, that's fine. But saying that it's somehow tied to Jesus is just not biblical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada
The 'unity' that SSC was speaking about is in relation to that love he spoke of. The scriptures say 'by their love you will recognize them'...speaking about Christ's true followers. Jesus said his followers were also to 'speak in agreement' and be 'of one mind'. Let me know if you'd like me to site the actual scriptures.
No, I know them and I do speak in agreement and of one mind with my fellow Christian brothers and sisters. It's a valid point, one I've made before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada
And please don't misconstrue my comment. I stated it was 'low' to belittle someone for their opinions or beliefs and I never intended for you to feel that I was calling you- as a person- 'low'. It isnt in me to do that. The little sad face was supposed to convey that I was disappointed you would do that...I guess you felt I was being mean. And I apologize.
Again, I'll just leave these comments alone and try to stay on-topic.
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Anyway, like I said, the questions were asked in SSC's post and I responded. Sorry you got offended for SSC.
