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I'm on the fence on this one. We are probably going to go through this with my in-laws at some point but IMO if the parent/s are not harming anyone or have the potential to do so, (such as the driving while blind, deaf or otherwise impaired for example) and if they are not being victimized by someone, and if they are fully lucid and mostly taking care of business, I'd let them be if it were me even if I drastically disapproved of how they were living. That's a whole lot of "ifs" I realize.
My FIL has lost a lot of mobility due to poor circulation in his legs but he very stubbornly refuses to get a scooter or wheelchair and instead remains trapped in their home for the most part along with our MIl who is still pretty vital. They have the coin for mobility assistance, that is not the issue. We are concerned and have gently expressed that concern but until either of them want our help we will butt out.
I suppose a family intervention could be staged for the stubborn FIL of the OP and he could potentially be encouraged to accept some help but if the old guy still has his faculties, anything attempted "for his own good" without his consent or against his will would IMO be intrusive, possibly only helpful to a very small extent, and finally, more helpful to the family to assuage guilt and worry rather than to the elderly person being helped.
I watch the Hoarder program occasionally and as a side aspect to a business that I owned, I would fairly often encounter the aftermath of hoarding, as in families dispersing the stuff of collector hoarders after they passed or entered extended care. I am horrified by what I see on that program and have actually encountered over the years and I agree that in a perfect world, the hoarders should get counseling and let all of that garbage go, but in reality, as long as they are are hurting no one, as long as their hoard doesn't spill out the doors to devalue neighbor's properties or cause rodent pestilence, and as long as they are getting their business done I can't see forcing a change on them if they are unwilling to be helped.
I wholly agree with the sentiment that life is messy especially at the end. It's hard to know what to do, to not do enough or to do too much. Best of luck to you all that are dealing with this issue.
As many others have commented here, I, too, have been in this position. The final few years of my father's life, during which he struggled with severe vascular dementia, featured some of the most difficult things I've ever dealt with. I was fortunate in having a sibling who worked closely with me in the process, and we both had the benefit of good counsel from others, but there is just no way to make it easy on anyone. Including the parent, of course - it wasn't any easier or more enjoyable for our father than it was for us.
Specific actions that I would counsel would include the following:
Find an attorney who specializes in elder law and pay for a consultation. Find one in your father's home state, because the laws vary in each state. You may discover that there are more resources available to you than you thought.
Contact the County Protective Services department where your father lives. Many or most counties have both child protective services and adult protective services - and one of the missions of an adult protective services office is to protect adults from their own actions, or lack thereof. Find out what kind of resources they have and can suggest.
Contact the Mental Health Crisis Center (or whatever name they use) in your father's county. Get his info on file with them, as well as your contact info. If the worst happens, they Mental Health Crisis people will wind up being contacted, and it'll be faster and more efficient if they have the data ahead of time.
Seek out a physician who specializes in memory problems and/or dementia in your father's area. If at all possible, try to get him in for an evaluation appointment, possibly including things like a brain MRI. I recognize that getting him to go ANYWHERE with you may be impossible, but a refusal to see a physician adds to the list of at-risk behaviors and characteristics.
Start researching assisted living facilities, including asking the county and state what if any violations they have incurred, visiting each for a detailed interview and tour, and asking about rates. I know that Dad is adamantly opposed to going to such a place, but what if he falls, breaks a hip, and the hospital refuses to release him except to an assisted living facility? If you've already done your research ahead of time and have a few places identified that you'd be comfortable with, that's one less thing you'll be scrambling to do on a day's notice.
If you wind up going the route of requesting guardianship (of the person and/or the estate) through the courts, expect it to be a very, very unpleasant experience for all. The court officials will do their best to make it as smooth as possible, but there is just no way that Dad is going to see that as anything but a betrayal. He is going to be very, very angry, and it just isn't going to be a fun or easy process.
Ultimately, it gets down to how much you love him. Do you love him enough not to want him to live in squalor, in unsafe conditions, poorly nourished, unkempt, ill and uncared for? If you do, you are going to have a fight on your hands, because all those things are the way he declares his independence, and he is going to fight to keep every one of them.
During my father's final few years, some of the things we experienced included were:
He filed a police complaint that my spouse was trying to kill him.
He lost his car in the parking lot three or four times, filing a police complaint that it had been stolen each time.
He told multiple people (including the judge at the guardianship hearing) that I wasn't really his daughter because my mother had fathered another another man's child on him.
He slept with a cleaver under his pillow, a hammer on the floor by his bed, a gun in the nightstand drawer and a piece of furniture wedged against the door because he was convinced that the CIA and the Mossad were trying to kill him.
He tried multiple times to escape the country.
He'd phone me at 2:00 a.m. to tell me that he needed food, and when I'd appear at his doorstep, bleary-eyed and sleepy, an hour or so later carrying bags of groceries and food for him, he'd stand there and curse me out for 15 or 20 minutes.
He called the US Representative for his district to ask for help in getting us to give him back his passport so he could fly to France (we didn't have his passport - we found it, after we got guardianship, in the safety deposit box at the bank two blocks from his apartment)
He had numerous minor fender-bender accidents, after a lifetime of driving well over a million miles professionally without a single traffic ticket.
He accused his granddaughter of being a drug addict and prostitute.
No, you are not in for a fun experience. And I feel for you and your spouse, and I wish you well in the journey you are facing. You'll survive, but at times you'll wonder why you're bothering.
And you may well do what my spouse and I did, after my father died. We both created living wills, named who we wanted to be our guardians if that ever becomes necessary, stipulated exactly the kind of care and decisions we want for ourselves and who we want to make those decisions, and we put them on file with our physicians and all three hospitals in our city. Because chances are good that at least one of us is going to wind up going the same way my dad did, and the last thing we EVER want to do is to put our kids through the same kind of experience we had with him.
(4) Hire a caregiver to live in. Part-time or full-time.
I agree with Gandalara. I am in a similar situation with my own mother, and it is VERY difficult. Something happens with age, and parents can get very mean and aggressive to you no matter how well you have treated them.
If he can afford it, try putting it to him this way.
There are only two choices. Either you agree to allow us to hire someone come into your house to help with your everyday needs.....or, you will pursue legal guardianship of him through the courts, and when you have it, he will go into an assisted living facility. Since he is so concerned with money, point out to him that the first scenario would be much cheaper and allow him to stay in his home.
I have faced with a similar situation as you and as you can see so have many others. There is no easy out on this.
If your elderly parent has become unreasonable, it only gets worse as they age, and your life will never be the same. At some point when they become a danger to themselves, you must force the situation. And yes, accept all the abuse you will get for trying to help them, because it is doubtful they will ever recognize you are trying to help them. I can't speak for all elderly people. I can only speak from experience of my own mother and my uncle who I went through this with. In both cases, they are convinced you are out to take something (neither had any assets) away from them and they will turn on you and can be very abusive. I wish there was a better answer, but the truth is as our parents age and dementia sets in, they become the child, and you become the parent and must act accordingly.
Many times, I dream of walking away, and trying to enjoy what ever is left of my own life. But when reality sets in, I know I could never do that and live with myself, so I am here to the end, and most likely so will you.
You didn't mention driving on your list, but that is the only thing I would be concerned about at this point - and you can impact that by filing a form with the DMV saying you suspect they are unsafe. Then they need to come in and take a tests. Or you can call his doctor with your concerns.
I personally would not try to force yourself into his life when he obviously does not want your "help."
If he is dirty, filthy, that is his own business, as sad as that seems. You can buy him baby wipes and things to make cleaning himself easier . . . buy him new clothing . . . but to forcibly intervene, I personally think is not the best route . . .
Have you tried writing a letter stating the things you would do for him - what his options might be? Or simply asking him what his plans are as he gets older for taking care of himself and what he would like to do when he no longer can?
Safeway delivers groceries to your door. You can order them online and have them delivered. Old people can microwave dinners and eat salad prepared from a bag, so they don't have to starve and they don't have to cook . . . not the healthiest, but they won't starve.
You could offer in your letter to coordinate stuff for him - why not approach it in a positive way?
I do think it is your husband's responsibility and if he is sloughing it off on you, that is typical, but I personally would not accept the responsibility because it will only breed resentment. I would volunteer to do just exactly what you feel ok doing and nothing more.
You don't owe anyone your life - you get to decide how to spend your life and what sacrifices to make, and for whom. Just like your father-in-law. Sounds like he would not take care of either one of you, so why the guilt?
This is my FIL. His sister has been staying with him off and on for the past 6 years. She will be 90 next month (amazing woman) but fell at his house (again) and will be operated on this next week.
During this private visit with her, my husband and I learned the following:
1- Personal hygiene - he refuses to turn on the hot water and take a shower. Says it wastes water. Says he rinses off. (Our daughter noticed he smelled at Thanksgiving but we brushed it off).
2- His behavior has changed. He keeps the house almost dark all the time, won't let his sister use dishwasher (she boils the water and does it that way) - says it uses too much electricity.
3- Turns air conditioning/heat totally off.
4- His electric bill was $40; landline phone was $100
5- She thinks he doesn't hear well (he says he's fine)
6- He takes 2 naps a day (after meals)
7- Not interested in his hobby any more
8- Won't let anyone in his home for repairs/cleaning
9- Some confusion from time to time (he says no, he's fine)
10- He has started to rent old VHS tapes (they cost 50 cents) and he watches these movies all day long. He now has 400 of them. For a guy that used to beat my husband if he caught him watching TV, he sure has changed!
We have also noticed several of the above ourselves but she has never had us "alone" before; he's always around. He is 88, almost 89. My husband is the only child.
My husband looks to me for the answers. (I have a large family but have lost both parents and been through all this already. We've also been through this with my husband's mom (FIL's wife for 51 years).
We tried almost 2 years ago to get him to move closer to us (massive failure on that one) and my husband just doesn't know what to do. He can be rather eccentric and if you're talking to him and he doesn't like what you're saying, he'll walk away.
His sister, my FIL's sister, that is, feels this is her last trip here and that she will be moving to assisted living in PA (where her children are). She feels strongly he is ready for that as well. I cannot stress how stubborn he is. I know my husband feels very alone on this and the reversal of the parent/child role is an alien one.
My husband can't do anything for a month but we need direction and we need this to work. We fear for his safety living alone and getting someone in his home is NOT an option. He refuses to let anyone come in there.
I have been in the family 28 years and even though my FIL has mellowed, I would classify my FIL as a bully. I do feel that my husband is afraid of him.
Anyone been there? How did you handle? If you did move them, what happened?
PS - He can afford assisted living. He thinks he can't but he can.
After reading the thread, I have to say a lot of this looks familiar to me. My parents are 88. Both are deaf, both have some cognitive impairment from disease. Mom can only walk with a cart and Dad falls a lot. I won't go into great detail here, but they won't let anyone help them, Dad won't allow anyone who is not family into the house...the plumbing needs work, the stove needs work...on and on. They have money but won't use it. My sister and I feel strongly that they need help and someone around them all the time, but they know this and it hasn't changed anything.
I think you need to see which of the issues you have listed is really a problem. Like others, I don't see naps as a problem. After that initial burst of energy that comes with the morning coffee, my parents spend much of the rest of the day dozing off and on.
Loss of interest in hobbies may simply be withdrawal from life's attachments as one ages.
In fact, although I know it's all frustrating, I wonder if the only item on your list that may truly be a problem is #3, and that's only if heat or cold is endangering his life. Number 5 can be a problem if he still drives. Number 8 can be a problem if lack of repairs is creating a hazard.
In your case, it looks like the main problem is being experienced by your FIL's sister. It definitely sounds like she needs to take care of herself at this point. So...what if she doesn't go back to help your FIL? Would your FIL consider hiring some help?
Back to my parents: Since my parents won't consider live-in help or assisted living, the only thing my Dad would listen to when I recently visited him is an intermediate option. My sister and I found a company (it's a national franchise) that has a very flexible plan that allows elders to stay in their homes. The company's services range from giving baths (which your FIL would refuse) to coming in and cleaning, going grocery shopping, providing transportation for a doctor visit, reminding elders to take medication...whatever is needed. However, the ONLY reason my Dad listened to this suggestion was because my sister personally knows the owner of the franchise in their town, and perhaps your FIL would refuse consideration of this.
My gut feeling about your case is that your FIL is not going to cooperate and that you are just going to step back and and see what happens. In the mean time, I would encourage you to at least send him information on any intermediate (between home and assisted living) services that are offered in his area.
I wish I had some great advice for you...but the aging brain and aging body seem to present very difficult challenges. Like you, I've seen in first hand and I struggle with some of the very same issues when attempting to help my parents.
Last edited by mrgoodwx; 03-27-2011 at 12:41 PM..
Reason: spelling correction
Before trying something that extreme, I would want to check with a local lawyer who specializes in elder issues. You could find yourself charged with kidnapping. And if the parent is still fairly articulate and can make a good case (not necessarily an accurate case) for himself, it could be pretty dicey even if you are eventually cleared. Or perhaps consider telling the police ahead of time what you plan to do. This is not something to be undertaken lightly. Have a credible witness along, at minimum.
You're right. It really is a serious issue. And I have to admit we seriously did consider "taking her out to lunch." Until one has gone through the complete wringer with an elderly parent who is totally belligerent and off the wall, one doesn't understand how someone can resort to such a thing. That is why in the end we went to the Elders at Risk agency and asked for intervention. But she successfully turned them away!
I amend my statement to include the caution you so wisely indicate--seek legal counsel first. Make carefully written notes (dated), b/c the social workers WILL ask for evidence. Include falls, other accidents, notes about hygiene and eating, and high risk factors in their home as well as irrational behaviors. These will be called into evidence in any legal procedure.
[quote=AK-Cathy;18462448]I suppose a family intervention could be staged for the stubborn FIL of the OP and he could potentially be encouraged to accept some help but if the old guy still has his faculties, anything attempted "for his own good" without his consent or against his will would IMO be intrusive, possibly only helpful to a very small extent, and finally, more helpful to the family to assuage guilt and worry rather than to the elderly person being helped. (quote)
My husband is the ONLY child. Then, there's me (wife) and our 2 children. Knowing that others are dealing with the same is sad. My FIL is a hoarder also.
We want him to have his independence but not be a danger to society. There's a fine line and we have now seen validated changes in the past year. That's a concern to us.
A year ago, most of these items would not have been on the list. His sister, almost age 90, stayed with him last year for about 6 months until she fell and broke her hip.
He was then "alone" for 6 months. We visit twice a week. We never have a weekend off; always have to go and see how he is doing. My husband cuts his grass and does his lawn work for him. He won't let anyone else do it.
The funny thing is that on our own home we hire out for this same work. My husband's schedule is a tough one and like everyone else, the last 3 1/2 years have been tough. We've just put our noses to the grindstone, put in longer hours and tried to make it work (both self employed).
Now, granted, men don't notice "clean" like women do. (Sorry to those men that do - my brother happens to be one of them!).
We are very happy to go down and visit, make sure he is breathing, take him out to eat, go for a walk on the beach, etc (make sure the lawn is cut) and turn a blind eye to the rest but what I was trying to point out is that I, personally, see signs of decline and was asking for direction.
Thank you to all that responded and I would never NOT trade family for no family. This is just a blip in the road and we want to do things ourselves but are being held back by our responsibility to him.
We have several business trips that we need to take this year (week long type things) and not having his sister with him will make us think twice about leaving him. We try to be responsible and do the right thing.
Plus, I really love my husband and am trying to do what I can for him. He has a lot of deadlines right now and does not need this extra right now.
Those items were on there a year ago. He actually only took 1 nap a day, it is 2 now.
If we could keep him in his home, great! All for it. But I worry for safety reasons.
My husband is joint on all his bank accounts and co-owns the home. (I'm thankful I engineered that back in 2005 - his wife had passed away and he then added his son to the accounts). He does not have POA however. He should, I know.
We do know many in elder care law. In our state, there's a lot of this (Florida). My FIL lives 1 hour from us in the county south of us. We are very familiar with the resources as my MIL had Alzheimers for 8 years, however, my FIL would barricade the house and not let the Mental Health workers come in. (God was merciful in her case and took her - she was only 74 and had been a lovely lady).
As far as assisted living, there are many near us and we do know the good ones. Again, I went through this already with MY mom who also at the end had Alzheimers. Again, a lady to the end. Absolutely.
Some of the senior centers around us are wonderful. I would love to get him to visit one for one day and he would love it. I was so struck by the men in the senior center when my mom was there for the day. One time, it was her birthday. We had a big celebration for her (she was 89) and she clapped and looked around wondering what the fuss was. They all sang Happy Birthday and then the National Anthem. All the men stood with their hands over their hearts so proudly and knew all the words, sang strong. I had tears in my eyes.
The one my mom was in (day) is really hard to get into - it's $75 a day but it was well worth it. My FIL could afford it easily but getting him in there might be difficult.
It's definitely going to be a journey. Thanks for all the good replies.
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This would be a great idea but....
