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So we are supposed to feel sorry about a union worker who made a hefty salary even though he only had an 8th grade education? He did not invest in his education at any time during his life. He did not save for the future. Apparently he burned through his pension money. He did not exactly put himself out by taking another job until years later when the poor decisions came to roost.
So we can bail out people who are either lazy or make poor choices. Of course that means a cost to those who sacrifice and delay gratification. Or we can take away the freedoms from these individuals. Or we can let them suffer the consequences of their choices. This guy is still bringing in $3100. That is enough where society does not have to step in to prevent dire consequences for the poor decisions. This guy already led a good life spending a decent salary as fast as he made it.
MI-Roger Ninja’d me by 4 minutes. We all think the same thing. The guy took the cash buyout and spent the money rather than find another job when they closed the plant.
When I started hitting job instability problems, I had no choice but to plan and execute my way out of it. I’ve had a “Geoff never works again” contingency plan for 10 years. It was pretty grim at age 50. At age 60 1/2, I’m in pretty good shape. I think it’s pretty important to have the numbers for “I can spend $XX,000 per year and not run out of money.” I then know what I have to do with my lifestyle to live with that number. If I went into denial about it, I’d be that Lockheed guy working as a Walmart greeter at age 80.
My personal issue is that my lifestyle cash burn is about 1.5x what I could safely spend if I stopped working now. I’d rather not give some lifestyle things up so I continue to work.
So we are supposed to feel sorry about a union worker who made a hefty salary even though he only had an 8th grade education? He did not invest in his education at any time during his life. He did not save for the future. Apparently he burned through his pension money. He did not exactly put himself out by taking another job until years later when the poor decisions came to roost.
So we can bail out people who are either lazy or make poor choices. Of course that means a cost to those who sacrifice and delay gratification. Or we can take away the freedoms from these individuals. Or we can let them suffer the consequences of their choices. This guy is still bringing in $3100. That is enough where society does not have to step in to prevent dire consequences for the poor decisions. This guy already led a good life spending a decent salary as fast as he made it.
...And, so where exactly does it say we have to feel sorry for him? It is only a story, perhaps a warning. We can feel sorry or not, that is up to us and our own upbringings or situations. I personally have empathy for individuals who have the rug pulled out from under them, but we all make our own paths with the hands we are dealt, and it is not on the rest of us to change their situations.
So we are supposed to feel sorry about a union worker who made a hefty salary even though he only had an 8th grade education? He did not invest in his education at any time during his life. He did not save for the future. Apparently he burned through his pension money. He did not exactly put himself out by taking another job until years later when the poor decisions came to roost.
So we can bail out people who are either lazy or make poor choices. Of course that means a cost to those who sacrifice and delay gratification. Or we can take away the freedoms from these individuals. Or we can let them suffer the consequences of their choices. This guy is still bringing in $3100. That is enough where society does not have to step in to prevent dire consequences for the poor decisions. This guy already led a good life spending a decent salary as fast as he made it.
You are a cold, cold man. They used the term "burned through" his savings - well, that's what happens when way back THEN when you were supposedly able to trust the company you'd worked for for 30 years to cough up all they'd promised. It's a wonder he saved ANYTHING, given he had a "full" pension coming. You assumed he had a fantastic salary but usually when a pension is included that counts as a part of the salary which is put away for you. We didn't get all the details but how many job offers do you think he had in his late 50's with an 8th grade education? And how much did his pension end up being cut?
Why do companies get to back out on their promises? Why do the shareholders deserve more than the employees who are making the widgets? It makes me sick.
When I started hitting job instability problems, I had no choice but to plan and execute my way out of it. I’ve had a “Geoff never works again” contingency plan for 10 years. It was pretty grim at age 50. At age 60 1/2, I’m in pretty good shape. I think it’s pretty important to have the numbers for “I can spend $XX,000 per year and not run out of money.” I then know what I have to do with my lifestyle to live with that number. If I went into denial about it, I’d be that Lockheed guy working as a Walmart greeter at age 80.
Totally agree, a contingency plan is the smart way to go. I also totally agree that it really stinks when someone is promised a full pension and then companies are allowed to pull this sort of thing. It's reality, though, so these days you have to make a plan for what you might do just in case.
The story seemed a little bit "click-bait-ish" IMO. CBS knows their audience is mostly seniors, and this is how they got their viewers to sit through the ads to catch the "lesser" news stories that are usually in the second half of a news program. But even so, it was a good reminder that careers have a way of ending, for all sorts of reasons. Making a plan just in case that might happen to you makes it easier.
One way or the other we all muddle through, but with a plan you can at least make the muddle a little more tolerable. (Hopefully, LOL.)
In my work experience, my employer had both unionized and non-unionized workers. I was one of the many non-unionized workers. When the corporation started crumbling, the non-unionized were approached, given a cardboard box to pack their personal belongings, and escorted out of the complex. Sometimes whole departments.
I honestly do not remember how they handled the union people.... I think they did have some notice their part of the business was coming to an end. Not the 15 minutes the non-unionized people had.
I had worked 26 years, had not reached age 55 yet, and pension was greatly reduced. As was my SS. I did find other work at less money, and am grateful for that. My total retirement income is enough for me to live on depending on no costly surprises.
You are a cold, cold man. They used the term "burned through" his savings - well, that's what happens when way back THEN when you were supposedly able to trust the company you'd worked for for 30 years to cough up all they'd promised. It's a wonder he saved ANYTHING, given he had a "full" pension coming. You assumed he had a fantastic salary but usually when a pension is included that counts as a part of the salary which is put away for you. We didn't get all the details but how many job offers do you think he had in his late 50's with an 8th grade education? And how much did his pension end up being cut?
Why do companies get to back out on their promises? Why do the shareholders deserve more than the employees who are making the widgets? It makes me sick.
The company did "cough up all they'd promised". They did not back out of any promises. Lockheed Martin did not go bankrupt or fail to pay pensions. This individual took a lump sum and spent it! That is one reason he accepted that the blame was his. It appears he also spent his income as fast as he earned it and failed to accumulate an emergency or other savings/retirement fund.
How does someone make it to their late 50s with only an 8th grade education? Society mandates 12 years of education as a minimum. Maybe his parents or early life circumstances were to blame initially. Getting a GED is not that difficult. He did not bother to expend the effort. Now 25 years or so later he is working as a Walmart greeter. What did he do in the past 25 years? Did he work? Did he spend any effort on gaining some education or skills?
I may be cold, but I ask the question, what should society do for people who make bad decisions? Do we take away some of their rights to make bad decisions, do we let them make the decisions and suffer the consequences, or do we bail them out to erase the effects of those decisions?
I may be cold, but I ask the question, what should society do for people who make bad decisions? Do we take away some of their rights to make bad decisions, do we let them make the decisions and suffer the consequences, or do we bail them out to erase the effects of those decisions?
All of the above. SS, in a way, takes away some right to make bad decisions by taking a % of your pay and putting it into a retirement plan (with a formula skewed in favor of low earners). The tax penalty for early withdrawal of the 401(k) is an incentive to keep the money set aside for old age although plenty of people make the decision to withdraw it anyway and accept the consequences. And we have a safety net (subsidized senior housing, EBT for food, Medicaid nursing home beds) but they're not pretty or luxurious, nor should they be. People need an incentive to save for retirement.
More on the pension issue: it said he was let go before he was eligible for "full pension". ERISA now requires that pension vesting be gradual over 7 years or "cliff vesting" over 5 years, meaning that at 5 years you go from 0% vested to 100%. Your benefit still increases with more years with the company, so being let go early has consequences but he would not have lost 100%. And pensions are held separately from other company assets, usually by a totally separate company. Corporations can no longer raid the assets of the pension plan and then go out of business (happened to my grandfather in the 50s).
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