Has anyone considered a retirement location out of the USA? (respect, husband)
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Maybe because I am in NY - an hour outside of NYC, food is expensive here. It is probably the same costs as Rome, Milan or Florence. My organic food prices are similar to Italy's big city food prices.
For two people, I spend $250 a month at Trader Joes, and probably another $600 a month or $20 per day at my local supermarket. Figure, I spend about $850 a month or $28 per day on average. If I go to my butcher more, obviously the average is higher.
If I have dinner out once a week, that is $400 per month for a very middle-of-the-road restaurant. I hardly eat out, but in a new city where everything is new and different, I would be more temped to eat out more. If I am sightseeing and away from home, I'll eat lunch out which is even more money.
If I go to a cafe while walking around a new city - even just to use a bathroom - it is $10 to $20. So twice a week, it is $40 to $80 a month. A couple of coffees and water in St. Marco's Square in Venice is $60 so I am talking about a hole-in-the-wall cafe.
I am up to $44 dollars a day.
This leaves $15 a day for sightseeing, museum fees, gelato or language classes.
Notice the extremely frequent use of "I" here, yet you're using this to support a blanket statement that this other couple cannot budget $60/day in Europe because Europe (which consists of dozens of countries many of which are very inexpensive) is more expensive than USA.
There are couples in USA who eat just fine on $400/month. There are couples where going out to a sit-down restaurant is a $50 event. There are couples who wouldn't dreaming of dropping $60 for a couple coffees at an overpriced tourist trap in Italy, must less having it as part of their daily routine while living in Europe.
You mention Florence. From https://checkinprice.com/cost-of-liv...lorence-italy/ the average net salary in Florence is $1,470 USD per month. That is NET, so before taxes, and it's slightly under $50/day. Do you think it's possible that these folks after taxes, rent, utilities, are taken from out from etc. aren't able to eat and entertain themselves for a lot less than you think possible?
We are planning on much more for food. This article says $30 per person, per meal is too low for anything but lunch. Dinner out with a bottle of water and a bottle of wine is more like $70 per person.
As StealthRabbit pointed out if you're planning on living like you're on short vacation then entire time you're in Europe this article makes sense, otherwise consider that long-term travelers usually spend a lot less on food because they can eat at home more often and aren't as likely to dine in pricier tourist areas.
Also note they said 3 months out of every 6 outside of Schengen, that usually implies at least 3 months of very cheap. We've eaten good meals in local restaurants in Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Ukraine, Turkey, etc. for between $5-$10 each, and even in Schengen farther north in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia similar.
Also, here is the price list from one of our favorite cafes in Lisbon, and this is right in the heart of the city (hence the English translations) one can eat similarly for cheaper outside the center.
Bottom line = All of Europe isn't an expensive dining experience.
Also, here is the price list from one of our favorite cafes in Lisbon, and this is right in the heart of the city (hence the English translations) one can eat similarly for cheaper outside the center.
Bottom line = All of Europe isn't an expensive dining experience.
This is why I posted this:
Quote:
I found this to be interesting
Quote:
Which countries in Europe are the cheapest to visit?
A good rule of thumb? The cost to travel to Europe’s most popular countries decreases as you go from North to South.
Less expensive countries include Poland, Portugal, Spain, and most of The Balkans. Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, and Bulgaria are particularly inexpensive. *Slovenia, Croatia, and Montenegro are significantly more expensive than the rest of the Balkans.
*These estimates are based on the average costs for food/accommodations/activities/transportation in the areas that tourists typically visit. Countries like Croatia, Greece, and Italy are much more affordable when you venture off the beaten track.
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Just be careful when planning to live aboard.
Last edited by YorktownGal; 11-13-2019 at 07:32 AM..
That menu from the Lisbon cafe looks great, especially the seafood plates! When I was in Leipzig from May to end of September, I found lots of small neighborhood cafes with prices not much more than what you posted, but without the good seafood options available in Lisbon. My neighborhood was not near any "tourist zones", hence I rarely spent more than 8 Euro for a good meal.
Most meals during 5 months in Leipzig were home cooked at my apartment kitchen. I rented a furnished place with fully equipped kitchen for 700 Euro per month, that was just a 5 minute walk from a couple of big grocery stores. That is really the key for not spending any more on food than I would if I was here in my apartment in Tucson (around $75 per week).
As StealthRabbit pointed out if you're planning on living like you're on short vacation then entire time you're in Europe this article makes sense, otherwise consider that long-term travelers usually spend a lot less on food because they can eat at home more often and aren't as likely to dine in pricier tourist areas.
Also note they said 3 months out of every 6 outside of Schengen, that usually implies at least 3 months of very cheap. We've eaten good meals in local restaurants in Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Ukraine, Turkey, etc. for between $5-$10 each, and even in Schengen farther north in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia similar.
When our kids were young, we rented houses by the New Jersey shore or Cape Cod.
We spend more money eating at our rental house than we would at home - even without restaurants.
All those stupid little panty items like ketchup, mayo, mustard, flour, baking soda, spices, that one normally has at home need to be purchased. It may not seem so, but it is pretty darn expensive. If you are staying in a short stay, are you going to pack up these items and take them? If not, you'll have to purchase them again.
If you have an apartment with these panty items and cook, then yes, food costs would be no different than home. If you are in an Airbnb for only a month, then it would be different.
Be sure to understand your plans for EuroRail.
AFAIK, True Eurorail passes cannot be bought when 'in-country', only overseas or at a Military Commissary. (if you are so privileged / allowed to buy there)
There are also quite a few restrictions and for more than one person we have usually found it to be cheaper to buy local / resident fares.
I'm sure your local family has the best stats on options. Should be a nice plan for you.
Thanks for the heads up, I have no idea how EuroRail works.
I hope it works out! I am not fluent in Italian which makes me nervous. I've taken Italian language courses but native Italians speak so fast, it is nearly impossible to get the hang of it. This makes me depended on my husband for communications which I don't like either.
Thanks for the heads up, I have no idea how EuroRail works.
I hope it works out! I am not fluent in Italian which makes me nervous. I've taken Italian language courses but native Italians speak so fast, it is nearly impossible to get the hang of it. This makes me depended on my husband for communications which I don't like either.
BTW, what does RTW stand for? Round the world?
If you've taken Italian classes and just know the basics, you'll get the hang of it rather quickly. Once you submerse yourself in the culture and language you'll be surprised. The important thing is that you at least try, no matter how much you might feel embarrassed. Italians will respect you for at least trying to learn and do your best.
The hard part may be learning the difference between the local language of your husband's town and true Italian if your husbands family speak the local language with eachother.
Have you looked into the cost of transporting you to Thailand when you have had a paralyzing stroke or the like? You may be surprised how expensive that would be, especially if a private medical flight is needed.
You are talking about a different thing. If you have a paralyzing stroke somewhere outside your home area, and need to be transported home, that is indeed expensive (for that kind of thing, I am already keeping an annual travel insurance - since I travel all the time - which covers up to $500,000 of medical transport costs).
If I have a stroke at home, and get stabilized for a few weeks (covered by my regular medical insurance), one of my extended family members will contact the nursing home re the admission, and the Thai immigration re annual retirement visa, then will buy two plane tickets (one of them roundtrip, the other one one-way), put me in a wheelchair, get both of us on a plane, get us to Thailand, leave me at a nursing home in Thailand, and get self back home. The cost of all of that would be around $3,000, which I do not consider expensive (particularly because that amount would cover about one week of stay in a nursing home in the US). Nobody needs a private medical flight just because they are chronically paralyzed.
It would be difficult for me to completely move away from the US due to the fact that almost everyone in my life who is important to me lives here. However, I just rented an Airbnb in Sicily for April. (At $44 per night, to those who said they never see rates under $50). I’m already brushing up on my baby Italian. What I have found in Italy is if you make an effort, people try very hard to communicate with you and really appreciate the fact you’re trying to speak their language. I have never been to Sicily, so I’m hoping it’s the same as it was on the mainland.
My plan is to find someplace to spend a few months in winter each year. This winter I am exploring Tucson, Cabo San Lucas and Sicily.
Hats off to all who have broadened their horizons beyond our borders!
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