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The "common denominator" behind a lot of this "re-development" of the downtown area, seems to revolve around all of these people who supposedly want to move back there. I ask, "WHY"???
Although I'm not originally from Rochester, I came here 64 years ago, when my father changed jobs, and his new job brought us here, at the beginning of 1958. Back then, "downtown" was indeed someplace to be! The retail district was "wall to wall" businesses on Main Street, beginning at Union Street, and going west, all the way to Plymouth Avenue. And many of the north/south streets that intersected with Main Street, also were densely packed with retail businesses, for 2-3 blocks in each direction.
Then it all dwindled away, beginning about 30 years ago. Stores closed, offices moved out, and in some cases, buildings were torn down. I'll be honest, the last time I was "downtown", was about 4-5 years ago, and even then, it was just a "drive through".....there was no reason to stop. The stores that my wife and I had patronized, were ALL long gone.
Now, supposedly, people want to move back, but I ask, "Why"?? There's very little there. The retail stores are gone, the closest place to shop for food, is Wegmans, at the corner of East Avenue and Winton Road, although I will say that there are some good restaurants still remaining in the downtown area, who survive in spite of the "peaceful protests" that occurred over the last couple of summers.....
From what all I see, this "re-development" is mostly apartments, and very little else.
I wonder if there was any alternative proposal and budget exploration for a cap park for St. Paul Street to Scio St.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4
The "common denominator" behind a lot of this "re-development" of the downtown area, seems to revolve around all of these people who supposedly want to move back there. I ask, "WHY"???
Although I'm not originally from Rochester, I came here 64 years ago, when my father changed jobs, and his new job brought us here, at the beginning of 1958. Back then, "downtown" was indeed someplace to be! The retail district was "wall to wall" businesses on Main Street, beginning at Union Street, and going west, all the way to Plymouth Avenue. And many of the north/south streets that intersected with Main Street, also were densely packed with retail businesses, for 2-3 blocks in each direction.
Then it all dwindled away, beginning about 30 years ago. Stores closed, offices moved out, and in some cases, buildings were torn down. I'll be honest, the last time I was "downtown", was about 4-5 years ago, and even then, it was just a "drive through".....there was no reason to stop. The stores that my wife and I had patronized, were ALL long gone.
Now, supposedly, people want to move back, but I ask, "Why"?? There's very little there. The retail stores are gone, the closest place to shop for food, is Wegmans, at the corner of East Avenue and Winton Road, although I will say that there are some good restaurants still remaining in the downtown area, who survive in spite of the "peaceful protests" that occurred over the last couple of summers.....
From what all I see, this "re-development" is mostly apartments, and very little else.
Didn't the dwindling get noticeable more like 50 or more years ago?
I don't know why people would want to move to there, but it seems like some people do. I suppose there are some attractions in the area like the museums, bars, venues and restaurants. Might also be nice to be able to walk to work if they work downtown.
I see. So everyone knew that there was private development that was going to take place for Inner Loop East, but everyone knows that there is no private development that would take place for Inner Loop North? I didn't realize that.
Which 1 new street connection were you thinking of? Was it the Charlotte Street one? Or the Savannah Street one? Or the work in progress Adventure Place one? This seems like more than one and I think it's hard to lose count with such a small stretch.
I don't believe Savannah st has been connected. (I could be wrong), but if it did, it would just connect to a parking lot. Same with Adventure Place, which is at the beginning of the loop, and might not be straddling the old IL.
So, it's really just Charlotte st. making a new, meaningful connection.
I don't think there will be any new connections on the north side, although the north side project has a different reason for being built.
I wonder if there was any alternative proposal and budget exploration for a cap park for St. Paul Street to Scio St.
Didn't the dwindling get noticeable more like 50 or more years ago?
I don't know why people would want to move to there, but it seems like some people do. I suppose there are some attractions in the area like the museums, bars, venues and restaurants. Might also be nice to be able to walk to work if they work downtown.
The 20, 30, 40 YO's love the neighborhood, and I don't think shopping maters. Lots of bars and restaurants in the area. east side, not north side
I don't believe Savannah st has been connected. (I could be wrong), but if it did, it would just connect to a parking lot. Same with Adventure Place, which is at the beginning of the loop, and might not be straddling the old IL.
So, it's really just Charlotte st. making a new, meaningful connection.
I don't think there will be any new connections on the north side, although the north side project has a different reason for being built.
It actually is the same reason, as noted in the videos, but again it involves a dynamic that was common among cities across the country. I think that part is hard to get across to some people that don’t think of the historical context behind what that meant in terms of a pattern.
Also, there was a similar community where the East Loop was, but was more diverse. There was a short video in another similar thread in the Rochester forum. Here’s the segment: https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/...he-inner-loop/
I don't believe Savannah st has been connected. (I could be wrong), but if it did, it would just connect to a parking lot. Same with Adventure Place, which is at the beginning of the loop, and might not be straddling the old IL.
So, it's really just Charlotte st. making a new, meaningful connection.
I don't think there will be any new connections on the north side, although the north side project has a different reason for being built.
Charlotte St. is the only one of them that has automotive traffic that can pass through, so that is the most meaningful one for those driving. The other ones are useful for potentially cutting time while walking (or would be once Adventure Place opens). Maybe biking, too. I do wonder if there's the potential for some development to happen on some of those parking lots.
I don't see any opportunity for any new automobile crossing on Inner Loop North save for Rome St to Franklin Street and then breaking through to Ormond Street, but I don't see a need to do that. Plus it'd wreck an existing park and a structure. I think if they did a cap park, then that'd be kind of nice large parcel to expand Schiller Park into a large-ish premiere park for the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRocks
The 20, 30, 40 YO's love the neighborhood, and I don't think shopping maters. Lots of bars and restaurants in the area. east side, not north side
I thought it seemed pretty neat. leadfoot disagrees.
It actually is the same reason, as noted in the videos, but again it involves a dynamic that was common among cities across the country. I think that part is hard to get across to some people that don’t think of the historical context behind what that meant in terms of a pattern.
Also, there was a similar community where the East Loop was, but was more diverse. There was a short video in another similar thread in the Rochester forum. Here’s the segment: https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/...he-inner-loop/
A couple of good examples of why including those that live in the area has to be a part of the process.
So much to comment on here;
Bertha is a wise woman. She understands what is going on, and governments true mission.
Just a couple days ago, I commented how the Inner Loop benefited the area on the east side, and has improved consideralbly since then. You disagreed, saying the neighborhood maintained it's middle class status, and thus did improve. Now you are saying it was poor people that were disenfranchised. hmmm
I wonder if there was any alternative proposal and budget exploration for a cap park for St. Paul Street to Scio St.
Didn't the dwindling get noticeable more like 50 or more years ago?
I don't know why people would want to move to there, but it seems like some people do. I suppose there are some attractions in the area like the museums, bars, venues and restaurants. Might also be nice to be able to walk to work if they work downtown.
I've lived in the suburbs my entire life, but I like this part of the city. Actually, the whole SE quadrant is pretty cool. All very walkable and bikeable. (lots of trails in ROC). All the property is well kept. There is the Neighborhood of the Arts, East Ave (mansions), Park Ave. (mixed use, with heavy residential, and lots of bars, restaurants, shops and services, Monroe Ave (a little edgy, lots of shops, services, bars and restaurants), Swillburg and the South Wedge. Now that I think about it, all of those neighborhoods are self contained, and artsy too. Except for major food shopping. For that we go to Wegmans.
Nice neighborhoods, nice Architecture, blend of suburban/ urban feel.
The north section of the IL, on both sides is the opposite.
Bertha is a wise woman. She understands what is going on, and governments true mission.
Just a couple days ago, I commented how the Inner Loop benefited the area on the east side, and has improved consideralbly since then. You disagreed, saying the neighborhood maintained it's middle class status, and thus did improve. Now you are saying it was poor people that were disenfranchised. hmmm
What do you think the government's "true mission" is?
What? My earlier point is that the East Side relatively(key word) was more mixed income, with a middle class and even upper class presence. Meaning, it was a bit different and I provided information in regards to that using the Redlining map.
My recent point is that the Eastern Loop also had an impact on nearby neighborhoods that were there before/during its construction. That was it and is a totally different point.
So, the removal of the East and North portions of the Loop is to bring about a similar result, mending the grid by bringing development to the area.
I will say that there has to be awareness that the neighborhoods revitalize versus gentrify, where you can have a mixed income community. I get bertha's point, but it doesn't have to be an "either/or" thing. So, you can infill lots now and offer more housing given the demand for living in a walkable neighborhood in the core of the city.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-19-2022 at 10:08 AM..
What do you think the government's "true mission" is?
What? My earlier point is that the East Side relatively(key word) was more mixed income, with a middle class and even upper class presence. Meaning, it was a bit different and I provided information in regards to that using the Redlining map.
My recent point is that the Eastern Loop also had an impact on nearby neighborhoods that were there before/during its construction. That was it and is a totally different point.
So, the removal of the East and North portions of the Loop is to bring about a similar result, mending the grid by bringing development to the area.
I will say that there has to be awareness that the neighborhoods revitalize versus gentrify, where you can have a mixed income community. I get bertha's point, but it doesn't have to be an "either/or" thing. So, you can infill lots now and offer more housing given the demand for living in a walkable neighborhood in the core of the city.
Governments true vision is to get RE-ELECTED. Do you vote?
I guess you did miss Bertha's point. She's right on. Watch it again.
Yes, it is either / or unless you have an open checkbook somewhere
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