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I live in NYC though I'm not from there and have lived in several different places in the US and East Asia. That isn't just sort of low utilization, that's very low utilization for that kind of infrastructure. I take it that footage might have been in particularly low periods of traffic as there can be pretty large daily and seasonal variations.
I do appreciate your optimism that the removal could have lead to even greater development. That's pretty promising--hopefully that faith is justified and the removal of Inner Loop North will lead to even more intensive development than what Inner Loop East is seeing.
I was never against this project. I just thought they could build above the IL, preserving below for vehicle, mass transit, utilities, whatever.
The north section, however, I predict no private development, but most likely taxpayer funded low income housing, etc. I'd kinda like to see it remain like in the sketches, almost like driving through a park.
It isn’t about “what ifs”, as other communities have been able to adjust due to having a viable option that is in line with the current street grid. Syracuse’s community grid plan for the I-81 viaduct removal is an example of this. The city has already done this with the Eastern portion of the Loop. So, they would likely have another street added to the grid going east-west.
My point about going across town for work isn’t the case for everyone. For instance, would you suggest to someone coming to the area to work at Harris near East High to live in the western suburbs or would you suggest suburbs just east of the city? While budget and other factors may come into play, I would think most people would suggest places of good quality and a short commute. That is all I am getting at.
First of all, I don't live in Syracuse, therefore I'm not overly concerned what happens there. I do, however, live in Rochester, therefore what happens HERE does concern me. Secondly, I may be a "dinosaur", in that I was in the Rochester workforce, when manufacturing was thriving. It didn't matter where you lived, with respect to who you worked for. Kodak and Xerox, the two main employers at the time, each had operations in multiple locations, spread around the town, and employees were frequently moved around, as their assignments changed. And for that matter, the current "largest employer", UR Medicine has MANY locations around Monroe County, and I'm sure that their employees, too, move around between sites, as a normal thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRocks
This portion of the Inner Loop literally has NO entrance ramp. It was planned to tie in to a proposed expressway from the south that never materialized. So you had to navigate through a bunch of neighborhood streets for about a mile to get to the IL from I490 eastbound.
I'm disappointed in the development as it's just a bunch of 4-5 story buildings with a slightly different facade all lined up in a row. Rochester is a very creative city. Can't we do better?.
I agree....
And as a side note, I'll add that a lot of real estate was torn up, from Highland Avenue, south, to Westfall Road, back in the late 60s, in preparation for that expressway link that was never constructed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
So I’m not the only one, as it doesn’t look like bumper to bumper traffic for a city that is admittedly about 2/3rds of its peak population in city limits.
Most likely, that video was shot during an "off peak" hour. When I was travelling on the Loop, back in the late-70s/mid-80s, at 6:30AM, there was a considerable amount of traffic. But something to consider: if a roadway is constructed to be efficient, shouldn't the traffic density be somewhat light, meaning the road is promoting smooth flow?
First of all, I don't live in Syracuse, therefore I'm not overly concerned what happens there. I do, however, live in Rochester, therefore what happens HERE does concern me. Secondly, I may be a "dinosaur", in that I was in the Rochester workforce, when manufacturing was thriving. It didn't matter where you lived, with respect to who you worked for. Kodak and Xerox, the two main employers at the time, each had operations in multiple locations, spread around the town, and employees were frequently moved around, as their assignments changed. And for that matter, the current "largest employer", UR Medicine has MANY locations around Monroe County, and I'm sure that their employees, too, move around between sites, as a normal thing.
I agree....
And as a side note, I'll add that a lot of real estate was torn up, from Highland Avenue, south, to Westfall Road, back in the late 60s, in preparation for that expressway link that was never constructed.
Most likely, that video was shot during an "off peak" hour. When I was travelling on the Loop, back in the late-70s/mid-80s, at 6:30AM, there was a considerable amount of traffic. But something to consider: if a roadway is constructed to be efficient, shouldn't the traffic density be somewhat light, meaning the road is promoting smooth flow?
In terms of the first part, that was the point I was making in that many people may have had crosstown commutes, which I actually didn’t deny. However, many people also try to live strategically in terms of having a short commute to work. Hence, why I said that not everyone would need to consider the Loop for their commute.
Also, my point about Syracuse was in terms of an example of what is planned when a portion of a highway is removed. Usually a mending of the street grid occurs, similar to what Rochester did with the Eastern portion of the Loop.
As for the other part, I get your point in terms of less traffic, but as you also mentioned, the location of the employment centres have changed due to the changes in the local economy. That actually my prove the point of getting rid of the Loop to bring more people into the core, to increase tax revenues by tapping into a legitimate urban living market and it also offers options in terms of being able to walk/bike or drive for those that want that lifestyle or a short commute to city core employers. When I say this, it isn’t just young professionals, but older empty nesters as well. In fact, my sister and her spouse are thinking about moving back into the city from Chili once their daughter is done with school. So, this is something that is considered by people of various ages.
In terms of the first part, that was the point I was making in that many people may have had crosstown commutes, which I actually didn’t deny. However, many people also try to live strategically in terms of having a short commute to work. Hence, why I said that not everyone would need to consider the Loop for their commute.
Also, my point about Syracuse was in terms of an example of what is planned when a portion of a highway is removed. Usually a mending of the street grid occurs, similar to what Rochester did with the Eastern portion of the Loop.
As for the other part, I get your point in terms of less traffic, but as you also mentioned, the location of the employment centres have changed due to the changes in the local economy. That actually my prove the point of getting rid of the Loop to bring more people into the core, to increase tax revenues by tapping into a legitimate urban living market and it also offers options in terms of being able to walk/bike or drive for those that want that lifestyle or a short commute to city core employers. When I say this, it isn’t just young professionals, but older empty nesters as well. In fact, my sister and her spouse are thinking about moving back into the city from Chili once their daughter is done with school. So, this is something that is considered by people of various ages.
I've lived in the same house my entire life, but worked all over the county, and even Albion. Also, I've had many co workers in Rochester, who make the daily commute from Buffalo suburbs, southern tier, etc
I've lived in the same house my entire life, but worked all over the county, and even Albion. Also, I've had many co workers in Rochester, who make the daily commute from Buffalo suburbs, southern tier, etc
I'm sure people commute to places all over. That kind of gets to my point about how everyone in the area that commutes to work needs the Loop. I knew someone that commuted from East Syracuse to Henrietta. So, I understand the point about commuting everywhere, but the Loop was only necessary for only so many commuters.
I'm sure people commute to places all over. That kind of gets to my point about how everyone in the area that commutes to work needs the Loop. I knew someone that commuted from East Syracuse to Henrietta. So, I understand the point about commuting everywhere, but the Loop was only necessary for only so many commuters.
Brilliant deduction. All the big 3, factories are on or near NY104. So if you live in Greece, for instance, there is no need to use the IL for commuting, but yes for 100 other reasons.
I was never against this project. I just thought they could build above the IL, preserving below for vehicle, mass transit, utilities, whatever.
The north section, however, I predict no private development, but most likely taxpayer funded low income housing, etc. I'd kinda like to see it remain like in the sketches, almost like driving through a park.
Building structures on a cap is usually quite a bit more expensive, so I'd be curious about if the land values/property prices would be able to make that work out and if the trade-off for what seems to be limited traffic would really make all that much sense.
I forget or haven't been paying attention, but did you feel like there was also going to be no private development for Inner Loop East as well?
Building structures on a cap is usually quite a bit more expensive, so I'd be curious about if the land values/property prices would be able to make that work out and if the trade-off for what seems to be limited traffic would really make all that much sense.
I forget or haven't been paying attention, but did you feel like there was also going to be no private development for Inner Loop East as well?
No, everyone knew beforehand that there was going to be private development. Funny thing is, I believe they only created 1 new street connection.
No, everyone knew beforehand that there was going to be private development. Funny thing is, I believe they only created 1 new street connection.
I see. So everyone knew that there was private development that was going to take place for Inner Loop East, but everyone knows that there is no private development that would take place for Inner Loop North? I didn't realize that.
Which 1 new street connection were you thinking of? Was it the Charlotte Street one? Or the Savannah Street one? Or the work in progress Adventure Place one? This seems like more than one and I think it's hard to lose count with such a small stretch.
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