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Old 02-01-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,735,067 times
Reputation: 3364

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNative34 View Post
Does this really happen in your town? Everything you eat is grown and raised right there?
Yes, everything that I eat is grown within 100 miles of my house, with the exception of oranges, grapefruit, coffee and cane sugar (too cold in WA to grow those). I pay a little more for my food and I sometimes can't have something I want because it is out of season... but it's really not that much of a hardship once I figured out how to preserve stuff. It actually turned out that I was paying less to eat locally if I factored in how much less I threw away, how much less I had to eat to get the equivalent nutrition, and how much less I had to pay in medical care since I wasn't eating processed food full of additives and chemicals anymore.

So, yes, it COULD happen in my town... but most people just go to Safeway or QFC because they believe the supermarket, centralized food system is the the only way to go. I don't blame them, we've been raised that way and it's culturally accepted & expected since about the 50's.
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,089 posts, read 22,607,566 times
Reputation: 9373
Maybe the lovers of sprawl should read the (by now somewhat old) thread on the effects of cities on humans. cities dull the mind, lead to more aggression, and less self-control
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Old 02-01-2009, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Rolla, Phelps County, Ozarks, Missouri
1,069 posts, read 2,255,263 times
Reputation: 1259
Many of you opposed to urban sprawl, caused by people fleeing the cities to move to the suburbs and exurbs, are yourselves eager to flee the cities and move into small towns or rural areas. There, you'll clear land and build a house or you'll move into a subdivision built on cleared land. You believe your motives and actions are noble and idealistic.

On the other hand, you seem to believe that government officials, business leaders, developers and property buyers who are causing the sprawl around cities are crooks, shysters, opportunists and land grabbers.

You all look the same to me (except for you Cali Bassman and you Curmudgeon.)

Cities like Rolla are planning already to expand, annex, clear away trees, lay down concrete and pavement on what is now farmland and put in utilities to get ready for growth. Rolla is working on a plan to expand, or sprawl, onto thousands of acres west of the city limits. You noble idealists would fight such a plan if you were here, and you might be right to do so. On the other hand, folks who live here are looking forward to more chain restaurants and stores, perhaps even a mall. Would you deny them such conveniences and pleasures?

Where you see sprawl, many Rolla residents see positive growth and progress.
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Old 02-01-2009, 05:48 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,089 posts, read 22,607,566 times
Reputation: 9373
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarksboy View Post
Many of you opposed to urban sprawl, caused by people fleeing the cities to move to the suburbs and exurbs, are yourselves eager to flee the cities and move into small towns or rural areas. There, you'll clear land and build a house or you'll move into a subdivision built on cleared land. You believe your motives and actions are noble and idealistic.

On the other hand, you seem to believe that government officials, business leaders, developers and property buyers who are causing the sprawl around cities are crooks, shysters, opportunists and land grabbers.

You all look the same to me (except for you Cali Bassman and you Curmudgeon.)

Cities like Rolla are planning already to expand, annex, clear away trees, lay down concrete and pavement on what is now farmland and put in utilities to get ready for growth. Rolla is working on a plan to expand, or sprawl, onto thousands of acres west of the city limits. You noble idealists would fight such a plan if you were here, and you might be right to do so. On the other hand, folks who live here are looking forward to more chain restaurants and stores, perhaps even a mall. Would you deny them such conveniences and pleasures?

Where you see sprawl, many Rolla residents see positive growth and progress.
Enjoy it when it's wall to wall pavement, big box stores and congested traffic. A few conveniences don't equal a good quality of life. Quite the opposite, as has been scientifically proven.

And FWIW, you won't see too much development where I'm headed...it's all state (public) lands surrounding the area, very little land (or infrastructure) available for lower-48 style growth.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,735,067 times
Reputation: 3364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarksboy View Post
Many of you opposed to urban sprawl, caused by people fleeing the cities to move to the suburbs and exurbs, are yourselves eager to flee the cities and move into small towns or rural areas. There, you'll clear land and build a house or you'll move into a subdivision built on cleared land. You believe your motives and actions are noble and idealistic.
I guess the biggest differences for me is that 1) I'll only be clearing a minimum amount of my land, 2) I'll preserve & reuse any trees and topsoil that I do clear, 3) my house will be small and built to be resource and energy efficient, and 4) I'll be working with nature on my farm and not against it. LOW IMPACT is the name of the game. It might be idealistic, but my goal is to improve the quality and health of the land during my residence, not deplete it.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: NE Nebraska
84 posts, read 363,136 times
Reputation: 99
One of the problems with sprawl is that it is eating "green" areas. At the same time the city (big or large) has plenty of space available for development or redevelopment. Why not "in-fill" before spreading out.

Sprawl can cost millions. Sprawl needs to be supported by water and sewer development which isn't cheap. That is usually accompanied by wider roads to carry more traffic. Sprawl also moves people away from neighborhood stores and away from their jobs. This means driving everywhere, which uses fuel, causes pollution and increased traffic everywhere. This is usually worse in mid-sized towns because they might only have one high school or one main shopping area and the roads are not built to accept the increase in traffic.

Many people think houses, especially those supporting commuters generate taxes. Actually they cost more than they generate. A typical farm with livestock and 400 acres of farm ground not only pays property taxes but buy goods and services locally. One family or maybe two live on the farm. New subdivisions may require new schools or longer distances in busing. Many times police departments must hire additional employees or spread their coverage areas which reduces response times and this can apply to fire departments as well. The residents might work in another town and therefore spend very little money in their town. So homes built by sprawl are a drain on governmental resources, while industry, farming, and some retail will generate more money than they spend in services, especially with a local sales tax.
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,869,710 times
Reputation: 3151
Quote:
Originally Posted by rural lady View Post
This happened to Bend Oregon, Central Oregon years ago, I miss my small town.
Off topic for a sec...I agree with you about prefering dogs to most people.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:57 AM
 
418 posts, read 1,063,920 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarksboy View Post
Where you see sprawl, many Rolla residents see positive growth and progress.
Yeah, I work with several out-of-staters here in Rolla and I get this sermon all the time. Not to mention from some of the peeps on the MO forum.
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Rolla, Phelps County, Ozarks, Missouri
1,069 posts, read 2,255,263 times
Reputation: 1259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvermouse View Post
Yeah, I work with several out-of-staters here in Rolla and I get this sermon all the time. Not to mention from some of the peeps on the MO forum.
Silvermouse, I hear it mostly from long-time Rolla residents. People who grew up here say that Rolla could have so much more shopping opportunities, etc., if the powerful elite was not so anti-progress. These long-time Rolla residents say they want Rolla to grow in population and in jobs. Do you remember the Cracker Barrel episode? The Citizens Against Virtually Everything (CAVEmen)?

I don't know exactly where I fit in the local debate. I really get sick of out-of-staters who come in here complaining about Rolla, but what the heck, the long-time residents complain more. As I've said on the Missouri Forum, complaining about Rolla is a favorite pastime.

On the other hand, we need some jobs and some economic activity, so we've got to have those out-of-staters come in here and sprawl all over the place because they've got the new money we need.

That's why my posts are all over the spectrum. I'm double-minded on this topic, I guess.

Probably the best thing is for Rolla to grow and sprawl with an influx of out-of-staters, and I can just ignore them, make fun of them and ridicule them when they deserve. Of course, if they're like Bassman and Curmudgeon claim they'll be when they get to Missouri, i.e. fit in with our ways, then I'll welcome them. Unfortunately, the majority of them seem NOT to be like Bassman or Curmudgeon..

What I'd like to do is try to figure out how to make money off of the newcomers.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Western Hoosierland
18,264 posts, read 7,414,066 times
Reputation: 5943
The town I lived in was taken over by urban sprawl back in the 1960's. So far we havent expanded and taken out any of the neighboring small towns.
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