San Antonio Skyscrapers (merged threads) (Houston, Dallas: city hall, neighborhoods, square footage)

[infinity & beyond]

San Antonio will never be a city of tall, flashy buildings and will always be slow to develop. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective.

However, I must admit that SA's skyline, while dull, is far from "short". Most of the buildings are medium in height, and when viewed from certain angles, and in certain conditions, can be quite appealing.

[imaterry78259]

What angle are you looking at? SA definitely need some skyscrapers. Look how nice San Diego skyscrapers are on the web

[wCat]

I suppose I'm one of those who doesn't think this is important. Maybe it's partly because I grew up in Paris where there used to be a six story building limit to preserve the skyline. I know that since living there in ancient times, there have been exceptions to that, but still very few compared to other cities with large populations.

For those of you that think we NEED more skyscrapers, can you explain the "lure" of these buildings? I know the whole bit about upscale and sophistication....but does that fit this city? I think San Antonio has a casual elegance that is completely unique. That's what sets it apart from Houston, Austin and Dallas. Why do we have to compete? I'm all for progress, but for all intents and purposes, building UP is not cheap when you have room and the right price to grow OUT. As long as real estate remains affordable, and we're not land locked by mountains, sea or development....it isn't feasible to build in the air. Just the liability insurance alone on a skyscraper is many times more expensive than a lower rise building. Then you have more traffic down town, more congestion on city streets in a very tourist oriented town, and more parking problems where parking is already a huge problem.

So other than being "pretty" or competing with other "bigger" skylines, what is really practical about this idea?

[21bl0wed]

Originally Posted by wCat

So other than being "pretty" or competing with other "bigger" skylines, what is really practical about this idea?

A skyline is like a persons face. Sure we might have a good personality ie. "cultue" But who is going to come explore the culture, when the physical appearance is so ugly? So basically we will have no respect among other cities just because of this fact. if you need more reasons why buildings are important and more than just a "pretty" thing (which btw i almost spit out some protein shake readin that line) go to ssp and read what the guys have to say there.

[wCat]

Originally Posted by 21bl0wed

A skyline is like a persons face. Sure we might have a good personality ie. "cultue" But who is going to come explore the culture, when the physical appearance is so ugly? So basically we will have no respect among other cities just because of this fact. if you need more reasons why buildings are important and more than just a "pretty" thing (which btw i almost spit out some protein shake readin that line) go to ssp and read what the guys have to say there.

Thanks for your colorful reply! Obviously I was being facetious by using the word -pretty-.....but doesn't your post make my point? Aren't we all attracted to a "pretty" face? What you're saying is this really is about "looks". From an economic stand point, and someone who is in the design/build industry, the cost is not worth the "look"......at least not in the immediate future. We have to have companies and people to fill the buildings we already have. You might want to check with BOMA to see what the occupancy rate is right now. That might be a bit more telling about why we don't have more skyscrapers. We don't have the luxury of risking "if you build it, they will come."

I don't have a clue to what ssp is....sorry. But a thread about this same subject came around not too long ago. Nothing has really changed in the discussion.

BTW - SA may not have the most impressive skyline, but "ugly" would be your perspective. Not everyone sees it that way.

[21bl0wed]

Originally Posted by wCat

Thanks for your colorful reply! Obviously I was being facetious by using the word -pretty-.....but doesn't your post make my point? Aren't we all attracted to a "pretty" face? What you're saying is this really is about "looks". From an economic stand point, and someone who is in the design/build industry, the cost is not worth the "look"......at least not in the immediate future. We have to have companies and people to fill the buildings we already have. You might want to check with BOMA to see what the occupancy rate is right now. That might be a bit more telling about why we don't have more skyscrapers. We don't have the luxury of risking "if you build it, they will come."

I don't have a clue to what ssp is....sorry. But a thread about this same subject came around not too long ago. Nothing has really changed in the discussion.

BTW - SA may not have the most impressive skyline, but "ugly" would be your perspective. Not everyone sees it that way.

No, im not saying build stuff when there is not a need for it. It's just hard to attract business when there already isn't much here. When you look at dallas or houston you see their skyline, you think POWER, BUSINESS, TECHNOLOGY. When you see ours you think HISTORIC, SMALL, CONSERVATIVE.

Now if you have an up and coming company, or you just have a family wanting to move to a city that appears to have good payin jobs, which would you choose? Obviously there is a lot more that goes into the decision making process besides just looking at a skyline. But I think it does play a larger part then some tend to realize.

[wCat]

Originally Posted by 21bl0wed

No, im not saying build stuff when there is not a need for it. It's just hard to attract business when there already isn't much here. When you look at dallas or houston you see their skyline, you think POWER, BUSINESS, TECHNOLOGY. When you see ours you think HISTORIC, SMALL, CONSERVATIVE.

Now if you have an up and coming company, or you just have a family wanting to move to a city that appears to have good payin jobs, which would you choose? Obviously there is a lot more that goes into the decision making process besides just looking at a skyline. But I think it does play a larger part then some tend to realize.

Believe it or not, I actually do understand your POV. And yes, it does go beyond a skyline. And I see that illusion of power and success with BIG impressive buildings.

One problem with building commerce and luring big companies here is just simply logistics. I've mentioned this in some thread a long time ago, but it is worth repeating. Houston and Dallas and a lot of midwestern cities are on very convenient rail and trucking routes for shipping stock, supplies and merchandise. SA is sadly sort of the end of the road for shipping....unless some company had international provenience and can go into Mexico. The growth in the Valley is helping some.....but it's not enough. Shipping by truck or rail is very expensive here because we don't have an industry to fill return trucks and rails back to some other destination. That means companies ship in but go out empty......and that causes local companies to carry double shipping costs to send a truck away empty. They would need to share the cost with another company or industry. That's just sadly the lay of land.

One of the reasons HEB does so well is that they use as much local and regional products/produce they possibly can.....and then shipping costs stay low. Their own brands that are manufactured locally can go OUT to other sources, while they bring in products that are manufactured elsewhere across the country. It's a win win for them....and those they trade with.

Not all industries have that kind of dynamics down here.....unfortunately.
Good discussion, however!

[oldmanshirt]

This evening I happened to be driving East on I-10/90 just inside the I-35 interchange, and the view of downtown (looking north from the road) was incredible. Sure, the buildings are not tall per se, but there's pretty respectable density in SA's downtown, with an interesting mixture of heights and shapes spread all over the place (it's not just a mixture of tall monochrome cylinders arranged in a vague pyramid formation like Houston's downtown, nor is it a hodgepodge of characterless glass like Dallas). Thankfully, this is only going to get better due to the infill created by projects such as the Grand Hyatt, Viadorra and Vistana (which are admittedly still "short").

Another thing to consider is SA's height per capita. If you look at a metro like LA, sure it has a downtown that is much taller than SA's, but how does it stack up with NY or Chicago or Houston? Not that all that impressively, considering it's the second largest metro in the country. Now, greater LA is 6 to 8.5 times larger in population than SA (depending on whether you're talking about MSA or CSA). Let's say every time you doubled SA's population, you got buildings that were twice as tall and twice as dense (i.e., twice as many of them). Hypothetically speaking, once SA got to 12 million people, you'd have 6 3,600 ft. Hemisphere Towers! Not to mention you'd have several other buildings over a thousand feet, and 6 times the density that downtown has today. Nevermind New York, SA would look like Shanghai or Seoul!

Obviously I'm being a bit fantastical, but my point is that height isn't always tied purely to city or MSA size. It can be thought of in the opposite way as well. What if LA was the size of SA? Extrapolating the current skyline down to 1/6th the size, downtown LA starts to look like downtown Corpus Christi (though it would still be almost 10 times more populated than CC).

I think SA's skyline reflects the type of city that it is: traditional, laid-back, unpretentious, and spread out. Of course, me being a skyscraper junkie, this means I'm always forced to go at least 3 hours east to get my fix, which always leaves me feeling just a teensy bit jealous of those Houstoners.

[imaterry78259]

Yep, even CC has a better skyline than SA

[oldmanshirt]

Originally Posted by imaterry78259

Yep, even CC has a better skyline than SA

Haha , the Medical Center alone has a better skyline than Corpus Christi!