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Old 08-08-2008, 02:37 PM
 
Location: The "original 36" of SA
816 posts, read 1,474,517 times
Reputation: 636

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
That's funny, I've never heard people in SA talk about 'Yankees'. Dallas maybe, but not here.
I think it depends on where you live in SA. My extended family (2nd, 3rd cousins) is more "rural" in nature (living mainly south towards Jourdanton, Pleasanton, etc.). At family reunions, they still will note that my dad is a "yankee" when introducing him to guests. Granted, he is from Pennsylvania (met my mom while stationed at Lackland AFB), so I guess they are technically correct.
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:30 PM
 
35 posts, read 43,743 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
Congratulations. As a long time reader of this board, mainly for educational reasons, your long post was the reason I finally registered. I first thought about writing a long post addressing everything you said then I thought about addressing each paragraph but didn't want to start off as a poster here like that or get in trouble with the site mods. Then I re-read what you posted and well, let's say I decided on the latter. So what the heck, here goes.
I'm happy to have had the opportunity to persuade you into the discussion. Let's hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
For someone as up on their throne as you, putting people and a city down, you sure have a problem spelling some insanely easy words.
I misspelled, what, one word? Rather than address trivial matters, such irrelevant grammatical errors, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually address the issues at hand. You know, like the (many) faults of this city that I systematically addressed in the previous post. If you intended to insult me, or "dethrone" me from my proverbial "high horse", I must say, you were immensely unsuccessful.

That's something else that perplexes me about San Antonio and it's residents mentality. It's as though anyone who presents any kind of criticism is automatically labeled a "snob" or an "elitist", which in my case atleast, is far from the truth.

The trend here seems to be that anyone who takes pride in their physical appearance (ie, avoids tattered, torn, and ill-fitting clothing, is well groomed, well educated, and well spoken) are automatically deemed arrogant and "snobbish". I think that's ridiculous. But then again, given the obvious lack of the aforementioned qualities in a large portion of the population here, I can see how this may be viewed negatively.

I mean, I could say I think the majority of San Antonians are slobs, but I think that'd be rather off putting to a number of posters. Therefore, if I can't get away with these kinds of statements, neither can you. It goes both ways.

Moreover, I question how you, an anonymous entity on a computer screen, who has never met, interacted, or communicated directly with me can label me a snob and pass judgements about me as an individual. I think that's a rather myopic and naive way to characterize someone who has a different life outlook than yourself.

And lastly, if you're going to criticize someone gramatically, you better make sure what you wrote is flawless. Your third sentence is a run on, and, you failed to include a comma after the word "said". Just a little helpful advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
But aside from that. San Antonio is a very beautiful city. From the Historic downtown architecture to the Missions to the topography.
That's a matter of opinion. I happen to think San Antonio is one of the most battered and worn-looking cities in the US. Detroit isn't the prettiest city either, but it's not like locals there brag constantly about how pretty it is. In any case, outside of historic areas such as the Riverwalk, the missions, the Alamo, and the surrounding historic downtown areas, I fail to see what exactly makes the city of San Antonio "beautiful". The freeway system is a joke, the roads are in serious disrepair, and many of the office complexes and shopping centers are dated and old; the whole city IMO just has a very unfashionable, stuck-in-the-'70's-and-early-'80's look to it.

Guests visiting from the east coast comment often about how in neighborhoods within the Loop, you'll have a nice house, five not-so-nice houses, a nice house, and so on, all in the same neighborhood. It seems that thoroughly impressive neighborhoods with consistent well kept, well tended to homes and yards are a rarity.


Outside of 1604, San Antonio is anyplace, USA with suburbia abounding, springing cheaply-made, Tyvek McMansions and strip centers. What's so "beautiful" about that? Again, in this case, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
You say the "beautiful" comments come from people here. Last time I checked most of the discussion here comes from three things: people living here discussing their lives, city issues and developments. People on the move here. People potentially moving here.
Whatever argument you were trying to make made no sense. You just proved my point; it's people who live here that are mostly the ones professing what a "beautiful" city San Antonio is. For someone reading this who's never been here, this may be a bit deceiving, considering outside of the the most famous and visited part of San Antonio, the Riverwalk, San Antonio is far from this perfect, impressive, amazing oasis that many on here would lead you to believe.

People on the move here or people who potentially are moving here again, may not have experienced the city in it's entirety and are making assumptions based on a few visits to the cities' most popular destinations, and the comments and opinions of those who already do live here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
There is rarely a "I just visited SA, here are my thoughts" post.
I dare you to use the search feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
So I'd summarize that most of those "Beautiful" comments come from residents who live here. No visitors.
And perhaps people who have spent the majority of their lives in San Antonio have a skewed perception of "beauty"? Again you proved my point and I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
Lastly on this issue, from some native to Detroit insulting the look of San Antonio, well, I find that genuinely perplexing. No offense though, to Detroit.
Well, the difference is that, unlike a large number of natives here, people from Detroit know and acknowledge that that city is in serious economic trouble. The state and city government is working with various local and national organizations to turn the situation around and attract more business, and revitalize the shabbiest and poorest parts of town.

We don't hold our head in the sand, and pretend like nothings wrong; rather, we take a proactive approach and employ cumulative efforts en masse to solve our problems.

This while San Antonio's government sits on it's ass and lets it's most important corporate presense fall through the cracks and move to Dallas, while having the gaul and audacity to act insulted and suggest that AT&T had some kind of obligation to stay in San Antonio, despite the city making little, if any efforts to accomodate a Fortune 10 company. I mean, duh...I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
Wow, aside from completely misusing the term "Reagan Democrat", you severely painted the wrong picture of San Antonians. Are you seriously saying that people here don't want change? Before I even counter that claim, I'll give you time to provide me with evidence of this that you've seen personally in your four years here.
I'm saying that the overriding political theme in San Antonio (and south Texas) is one of conservatism and in invariability. If you can't look around, examine the practices of the cities (woefully incompetent) government, the attitudes and life outlooks of the majority of residents, and the prevalent resistence and opposition of anyone or anything which questions the "status quo" (this includes religion, politics, clothing, education, and even opinion) and see conservatism, well, then that's you. But to suggest that my observations are based solely on personal "opinion" and nothing else I think is delusional. San Antonio is a conservative city by most anyone's standards.

Since in your opinion San Antonio is not conservative, and since that goes against how the majority of people would characterize the city, it's on you to provide empirical data to support your argument. Basic scientific method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
San Antonians voted down light rail in 2000 (4 years before you began living here) mainly because many felt it was too ambitious. Instead of starting out with one maybe two starter lines, they showcased an entire system. Also, people didn't think the lines they proposed benifited the city, just certain areas. Lines didn't go to far west San Antonio or the northeast or east sides.
Well, compromise could have been made. Perhaps, lines could have run through the cities busiest areas, where they could accomodate the highest possible number of people? What happens instead, is that all serious talks of the project are stopped and, surprise, four years later, not a mile of track has been laid and the project is essentially in limbo.

I also don't doubt the areas the proposal "didn't benefit" wouldn't have paid for the project in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
As for the toll roads. Well, those are supported in San Antonio. So much so that the woman who formed the "Anti-Toll' group in San Antonio is a recent transplant from... California who lives in Bulverde.
Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Is that all San Antonio is about? There is so much talk about this and that, about what's coming, and what's been proposed and how great and amazing it's going to be. And then? Nothing happens, gets built, or is accomplished. As for this proposed toll road, I'll just have to wait and see, because if the trend is correct, it won't be happening anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
Now that is just such a petty gripe if I've ever seen one. Though, humor me with such important examples.
Travel around a bit. I could sit here for hours and come up with various stores, restaurants, and other establishments that San Antonio lacks that other cities have (including Austin), but I really have already spent too much time addressing you. I can also talk about a definitive downgrade in the look, product, and service at various grocers, restaurants, and car dealerships, but again, that task would take time I just don't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
What role do San Antonians, or the city for that matter, play in what the competition level is at between businesses? It's called capitalism.
They play a huge one; it's called demographics. It's exactly why HEB decided not to put another Central Market at the corner of I-10 and De Zevala, but instead opted for a slightly downgraded 'De Zevala Market'. It's also why Dallas and Houston have three and two Central Markets, respectively. In regards to car dealerships, the demographics of SA obviously cannot support more than one luxury car dealershp per marque.

This is what's called a monopoly, and if you've taken an Economics course, you'd know it creates and fosters an environment for poor service, and monstrous entities often referred to as "complacent giants". These companies do not have to be efficient or innovative to compete in the marketplace, because, they don't have any serious competition.

Although HEB is a relatively high quality grocer, the fact of the matter is that the company manipulated the local market by pricing out the competition and building stores directly near competing grocers. Although HEB has slightly less than two-thirds control of the San Antonio grocery market share, I'd characterize as HEB as a monopoly nonetheless.

I've not seen this in any other areas of large population outside of San Antonio. I think in the end, it basically screws the customer, and benefits the corporation, and unjustly so, might I add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
If you're too dense to figure out why Gunn would use Simply Better as their slogan, well I'll give you a little hint. They don't just sell Acura's.
I've personally been unimpressed with a number of Gunn's dealerships. I think they have an image problem, and find the sales and service staff are arrogant, unaccomodating, and lazy. Atleast that has been my experience at three of their dealerships (I'll leave which ones up to your own imagination).

Perhaps though, in using the slogan "simply better", Gunn's referring to their competitors, which, admittedly isn't saying much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
San Antonio has had 54 consecutive months of economic growth.
I didn't say that it's not. San Antonio is growing exponentially, as a hub of low-skill, low income labor. That's how it's always been, and quite frankly, that's what should be expected (especially considering the surge in population.

But at the same time, don't try and misrepresent the facts; SA is not growing as a hub of commerce, and really is not suited for large corporations like AT&T. Corporate growth and low-skill growth are two very different things. While both are positive, don't try to gloss over the reality that the latter really doesn't create a booming economic base.

Lastly, Toyota has just stated that they'll halt production on the Tundra for three months. Obviously, this will have a considerable impact on the local economy. It's like for every step forward the city makes, it takes two steps back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
In stature only. A little over 600 employees will relocate and the name. That's it.
It's a little over 700, and it's not in stature only. The highest paid, most educated, and most influential AT&T executives and employees will not be in San Antonio. Those remaining are service persons with the company's Telecom Operations group, and are nonessential in corporate decision-making and day-to-day operations.

In other words, the "big whigs" have left town. That's a little bit more of a blow than in "stature only".

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
And how exactly would a Detroit native who has only lived in San Antonio for four years know what SA's business climate and activity was like in 1992 or before?
Ever heard of the internet? The Wall Street Journal? Business Week? A history book?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
When Southwestern Bell Communications (not AT&T) came to SA in 1992, it was a small regional company. It grew while in San Antonio to what it is today. But even before SBC came to SA, there was Clear Channel, Diamond Shamrock Corporation, Ultramar Corporation, Valero, Tesoro, HEB, USAA, etc.
Which are the same corporations that are still here, minus AT&T. What's your point? For a city of it's size, San Antonio's corporate presense is, to put it frankly, lacking. And furthermore, in the sixteen years AT&T did occupy those brown, vintage-looking structures downtown, not a single other major company relocated here.

My point was that before AT&T, SA's corporate presense was negligble, and it still is. This is not a city busting at the seams with corporate activity. Deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
There goes the spelling problem again.
See above quote about spelling and hypocracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
How is the city supposed to contend with a CEO who wants to move the company to the city he lives in?
If you honestly think that one person, a CEO, and one who was just recently appointed at that, has the power to move a company on a whim because of his personal preferences, well, you're just delusional.

You obviously know nothing about business, the importance of strategic corporate location, and the various corporate assemblages that work with the CEO to make decisions. I won't waste my time trying to educate you.

AT&T is the largest telecom company with an operating income of $20B and total assets in excess of $250B. You honestly think Stephenson can just pick up and move the company whereever he see fits? Get real. The truth of the matter is that you, like many San Antonians, are bitter at the fact that "another one bites the dust", which seems to be a recent trend that the city government can't figure out a way to turn around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfuntime View Post
I guess by this point you thought to yourself, What the heck, I'll just throw out an insanely false generalization for S&G's!
Sorry, there's a difference between "insanely false generalizations" (whatever the hell that means) and throwing out factual information which the majority of people here may disagree with. Differing opinions are just that; differing opinions. When supported by factual information, as I provided in what I've just written, you cannot call my conclusions "false". You can counter them with your own viewpoint and sources of info, but you cannot label anything I wrote "false".

Perhaps SA is stuck in a time warp because there is such a backlash against those with so-called "false" or different ways of thought. I look forward to more interaction with you.

Last edited by 5Fingaz; 08-08-2008 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:33 PM
 
Location: North Central S.A.
1,221 posts, read 2,318,355 times
Reputation: 956
Well, Mr. happymiddlefingaz...how do you think we're going to react to your posts if you have labeled us indirectly as "slobs"? Take it lightly? Laugh it off? Go back to MI and hang out with all the hotties in the great white north, and have a beer with the "High skilled" labor that is Detroit.

And...San Antonio was VERY stagnant growth-wise in the 80s and 90s. We're finally growing, even IF it's "low income" labor moving in...(military??? low income?) If we believe (and in time!) the big corps will come.

Last edited by Buffyfan; 08-08-2008 at 06:50 PM..
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:48 PM
 
Location: North Central S.A.
1,221 posts, read 2,318,355 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Fingaz View Post
I

See above quote about spelling and hypocracy.

BTW, it's hypocrisy. heh heh.
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
432 posts, read 995,670 times
Reputation: 425
I like it here! But who am I?
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
2,397 posts, read 5,843,187 times
Reputation: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffyfan View Post
BTW, it's hypocrisy. heh heh.
You're just evil.
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:06 PM
 
Location: North Central S.A.
1,221 posts, read 2,318,355 times
Reputation: 956
Well, Crittergal...glad you're here. I know our city isn't perfect. But who am I? A SLOB! lol
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:30 PM
 
4,796 posts, read 13,711,684 times
Reputation: 2709
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Fingaz View Post
When supported by factual information, as I provided in what I've just written, you cannot call my conclusions "false". You can counter them with your own viewpoint and sources of info, but you cannot label anything I wrote "false".
Whew.....are you sure you're not from the "Windy City"????

After all that inflated pontificating you have accomplished ZERO other than you are obsessed with petty differences, you don't like San Antonio and you don't know the difference between truth and opinion. While I COULD NOT read every word you wrote, I failed to see you prove anything to be "truthful" rather than opinionated. You quoted, "The Wall Street Journal", "the Internet" and history books, yet cited no specific sources to whatever inane point you were trying to validate.

You have lived here four years.....yet you said only people that live here have good things to say about San Antonio....right? So what category do you really fall in? Either you don't live here and are taking up your sword on behalf of someone else, or you do live here and you're lying. Your logic resembles that of a puff adder.....a lot of spit and no bite.

The bottom line, is your opinion is different from others on this forum. So be it. Feel free to share with us something positive in your world....if there is such a thing. You're wearing your bitterness on your sleeve.

So much for sharing the love from Motown.

Last edited by wCat; 08-08-2008 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:45 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
394 posts, read 1,375,477 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post
Whew.....are you sure you're not from the "Windy City"????

After all that inflated pontificating you have accomplished ZERO other than you are obsessed with petty differences, you don't like San Antonio and you don't know the difference between truth and opinion. While I COULD NOT read every word you wrote, I failed to see you prove anything to be "truthful" rather than opinionated. You quoted, "The Wall Street Journal", "the Internet" and history books, yet cited no specific sources to whatever inane point you were trying to validate.

You have lived here four years.....yet you said only people that live here have good things to say about San Antonio....right? So what category do you really fall in? Either you don't live here and are taking up your sword on behalf of someone else, or you do live here and you're lying. You logic resembles that of a puff adder.....a lot of spit and no bite.

The bottom line, is your opinion is different from others on this forum. So be it. Feel free to share with us something positive in your world....if there is such a thing. You're wearing your bitterness on your sleeve.

So much for sharing the love from Motown.
Agree w/you Wcat...and I've only lived here 4 1/2 months. I like it.....and I came from a really beautiful area that I liked too....I'm spreading the love...
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Old 08-08-2008, 09:41 PM
 
Location: South Central Texas
114,159 posts, read 54,004,420 times
Reputation: 163212
I love it when you all get medieval !!....
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