Need help with a HOA (San Diego, Imperial Beach: sale, HOA fees, insurance)

[Firebug24k]

Hello all,

Long time lurker, first time poster... I'm in the process of buying a property in Imperial Beach. It was, I'm told, originally zoned as a condo, and built as a condo, because it's rather close to other houses in the neighborhood. Apparently (and this is all hearsay), the HOA was dissolved shortly after construction (built in 1998), and now there is no HOA, or fees, etc.

I have no way right now to figure out if this is true or not. The title company has refused to help, as they say it's not their problem.

I have two issues: one is insurance - I can't get a straight answer on how to insure the property. If there is no HOA, there's not going to be any master policy to insure the exterior of the home, so I need a single family homeowner insurance policy, but is this legal, since it's a condo? Very confusing.

Second, I don't want to move in and find out that there's thousands of dollars of back payments due. Both my agent and the listing agent say there isn't, and that there's no hoa, blah blah... but how do I get this in writing?

To complicate matters, I'm not in state right now, I'm on the East Coast, so whatever research I do has to be via phone or email. I'm not opposed to hiring someone to figure this out either, for a reasonable sum of money.

Thanks for any advice!

Jay

[mricu]

There are many things you can do research if the community has an HOA or not:

- Look at the MLS listing of the property, it usually tells you if there is an HOA and the name. If it doesn't, then look up current and past listings within the community on trulia.com or redfin.com. If any listing shows the name of an HOA then you are one step closer. Look up that HOA contact info can ask them if they are the HOA for the community.

- If you go into escrow, you still have a due diligence period where you can inspect the property as well as find out if there are any community rules. If there is an HOA, they must provide you with the communitie's governing documents during the due diligence period. If you read over the docs and don't agree with some of the things in them, you can still back out of your sale.

- If you are going through escrow, your title will be clear of any liens when you close on the home. If it's not clear, that is what title insurance is for.

You don't need anything in writing as when you get into escrow it will be clear whether an HOA is present or not. As for insurance, if you are not in escrow, why even worry about it yet?

Again once in escrow you'll get the details you need ... the insurance company you choose can issue your insurance within a day if required. If you want to be safe, assume the HOA doesn't cover anything and get a comprehensive policy that covers both inside and outside the property. Once things settle down, you can change your policy any time you want.

[mricu]

www.sdlookup.com can also be a wealth of information for your property or other properties in the neighborhood. It will tell you some info on HOAs if they exist for the address.

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Looking at the MLS details while okay is only a minor detail. The MLS is limited in liability regarding official information.

The best and only source you should using is San Diego County Recorder or Treasurer. They have the entire history about the actual parcel number. http://arcc.co.san-diego.ca.us/arcc/...ap/search.aspx

Buying property varies from state to state. I dont know of ANY state that is even remotely close to the laws and process here in California out in the East Coast. Totally different structure.

There is no doubt you want clear title for buying property. I wouldnt touch it if title wasnt clear or you have people that you are working with that are blowing it off. Hire other people that you trust if you dont trust them to be your eyes and ears on the ground. From the sound of your post, it looks like you may need to explore that option. Out of curiosity is this an investment type property? Are you first time investor buying out of state?

Not to sound too crass, but if the County is unable to provide written proof that an HOA was dissolved, then get an attorney if you want it in writing. Only at that point, would you have an clear indication as to the parameters on insurance.

[Firebug24k]

EDIT: And yes, if I can't figure this out myself (for free), I'm going to have a property attorney take a look at it before I close - I like the house, but I'm not going to get screwed

Thanks everyone for the advice. Some more information:

1) Military servicemember moving to California from Virginia, first time homebuyer. Buying as a place to live, not as an investment. Intend on continuing to live there after leaving the military, so I plan to be there a while.

2) All the advice on the MLS is good, but the MLS listing has no data on the HOA. In fact, the MLS listing doesn't show it as a condo, but as a SFR.

3) We're in escrow, so I'm able to pull the string on this a little bit so far. Was able to order the condo documents (looks like CC&Rs and other papers, 12 pages worth) from the SD County's office, along with the parcel map. Parcel map checks out. Don't have the other document in hand yet, they should be here Tuesday/Wed next week.

4) However, all the documents in the system regarding the property on the SD County's website stop at 1998, when the building was built. So there's nothing in there that I can see that says if the property is still part of a HOA or if it was dissolved. Are organizations like HOAs even required to "file" something if they dissolve? There's only three units, and the other two units have had only one owner each since the buildings were built. So my feeling is probably that the HOA just.... disappeared, and that the existence of it in the first place was to circumvent some sort of law CA has about building places too close together or something like that.

Any more thoughts on how to figure out if the HOA still exists? I'm going to have someone knock on the doors to the neighbors on Monday and ask them, but I'd still like something that is legally binding.

Thanks!

[oddstray]

Originally Posted by Firebug24k

... Any more thoughts on how to figure out if the HOA still exists? I'm going to have someone knock on the doors to the neighbors on Monday and ask them, but I'd still like something that is legally binding.

You need the property attorney.

The neighbors' opinions may be useful and provide more hints, but their opinions have no weight in law. The fact that CCR's still exist suggests to me that the HOA did not formally disband but simply faded away. That would leave you vulnerable to someone resurrecting it against your wishes.

[Firebug24k]

Update -

I finally got the CCRs. Interesting. The HOA consists exactly of myself (if I buy it), and the other two owners. Nobody else. A few other restrictions, such as not running a business out of the house, no loud music, no obnoxious pets, and no satellite dishes, but nothing out of the ordinary. The HOA fees are only what the three owners get together and decide there will be, if any (right now... none). All has to be decided by agreement of all parties to change. There's even a paragraph in there that says new owners explicitly cannot be charged overdue HOA fees from the previous owner of any of the units.

Also, I received the original parcel subdivision map, which clearly and exactly defines the common area, which is great.

Really, I'm feeling pretty convinced that I understand what's going on here - just a little annoyed that I had to pull teeth to get the information (i.e. researching all the document numbers myself and sending them to the title company and asking them to pull each specific document for me). Doesn't sound like anything shady is going on, just laziness.

As an aside, I also ended up with all the deeds on the property going back to 1927, one of which restricts sale of the property only to "those of the Caucasian race". Thankfully, that's no longer in effect. I guess I'm a bit naive, but I'm shocked that was legal as late as 1927!

[oddstray]

I'd also suggest going with a different title company, if possible. If they're that lazy about pulling documents and doing research, I doubt they're going to be at all useful in case of any title disagreements.