Talk me out of buying in Carmel Valley? (San Diego, Orange: rental, buying a house)

[alexmoving]

We are a couple with 2 kids (PK and 1st Grade) relocating from Chicago, and we can afford a home up to $1M, and if we really pinch every penny, up to $1.25M. We need to be able to commute to where the jobs are: Downtown SD, biotech / Sorrento Valley area, La Jolla area, etc, and occasional business trips to Orange County.

After extensive online research, visiting for a few days, talking to friends who live there, we picked Carmel Valley, in particular the West part of CV, around the mall at Del Mar Highlands Town Center, as our target neighborhood. We have seen and heard so many good things. The schools are highly rated. Shopping is nearby. Highways are nearby and in a "goldilocks" location that's close to all SD job centers, while still convenient to the occasional OC business trip. Lots of families live there.

What could possibly go wrong? We are so enamored with the area, that I'm looking specifically for some alternative neighborhoods that we should consider instead? We are very reluctant to rent for a year, which is a common piece of advice around these forums.

Thanks

[scgali]

We lived in that area when we first moved to SD and rented there for 8 months before buying in S. Carlsbad. We have 2 kids (infant and preschool) and I work downtown off the 15 and commute. We actually really liked the area and it does have great schools and is a good location for commuting. The 3 main reasons we moved and chose not to buy there: 1. The traffic on surface streets. That area seemed to get very congested and was a huge pain to drive around. I didn't like having to take the freeway to go pretty much anywhere else as the 5 can be brutal. This is just a personal pet peeve of mine. When home from work I don't want to have to drive on the freeway at all and there is are a lot of fun nearby coastal areas/restaurants to south Carlsbad that don't require freeway driving. 2. We didn't get a sense of a close community feel as we did in the Encinitas and Carlsbad areas. Great, safe area but on the sterile side and we wanted a town with more personality. Actually Encinitas was top choice but over budget. 3. I love the beach and wanted to live as close to it as possible for the money. I definitely agree with renting first even if only for 6 months or so. These are just our observations after less than a year renting in Carmel Valley and we didn't know anyone in the area beforehand.

[goozer]

It sounds to me like you've settled on a pretty great area given your commuting needs. Carmel Valley is a nice area that is in close proximity to the best things that San Diego has to offer. The only observation I would make is that if you are coming from downtown Chicago or inner suburbs then CV is going to feel like serious suburbia. If you value a more urban environment you might want to get closer to downtown. Of course, schools become more of an issue then too. I would still echo the "rent first" mantra even though it is a pain in the neck if the plan is to make a permanent move. There are so many variables in making a cross country move and getting established in your new city. It can be risky choosing your permanent home before you've had a little time to gel and get the lay of the land.

[Ms_Intrepid]

Hate the surburb feel of Carmel Valley. Ended up buying in Mission Hills. Love how its still family friendly but 10 minutes out I'm in the thick of things. Though I'm going to have to private school and if you have to commute up north rush hour is a horror. It really depends on whether you're a surburbs or a city person.

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by alexmoving

After extensive online research, visiting for a few days, talking to friends who live there, we picked Carmel Valley, in particular the West part of CV, around the mall at Del Mar Highlands Town Center, as our target neighborhood.

When you were in town, what other parts of the county did you visit and spend time in? It would be helpful to know your reactions to other areas before offering suggestions.

Also, do you and your spouse already have jobs lined up? You mention commuting to several different and somewhat spread out areas, so I am wondering where, exactly, you will be working.

Finally, are you relocating from the suburbs of Chicago or the city itself? Do you see yourself as "city people" or "suburban people?"

[sprez33]

Hi alexmoving,

You sound very much like us 13 years ago. We relocated to SD from the Bay Area for a job in the biotech industry. We looked at a lot of areas around North County and chose Carmel Valley; west Carmel Valley walking distance to the Highlands Center to be exact. We had two kids in preschool at the time. Both my wife and I were used to living in larger, more urban cities. SD was the smallest city that either of us lived in and the first time either of us lived in a single family home. That said, looking back over 13 years, I don't think we could have made a better choice. Some of the things we like are:

- Location: Was a good commute to my job (wife works from home, mostly) but is nicely close to the coast. Close enough to the coast to enjoy the coastal climate effect. We rarely use A/C and have shut the pilot light off on our heater. Everything in SD is within about 20 mins (airport, downtown, beaches, other SD neighborhoods, Balboa Park, etc). This is a non-traffic estimate. Others posting here are correct in that it is suburban, though most of SD outside DT is 'suburban' relative to Chicago and the east coast cities. It's true that you need to drive almost everywhere and the surface streets get crowded during rush hour. One of my pet peeves about CV is that there is not a bus line that goes up and down Del Mar Heights Road. CV is a public transportation desert. Much of the newer housing going in to CV (mostly to the east but also the One Paseo project just across from the Highlands Center) are higher density so CV is urbanizing a bit.

Raising Kids: This is likely the single greatest advantage of living in CV. It's a master planned community with relatively new schools. The schools are among the best in the county. We have two very bright kids (one with a minor special ed need) and they are both thriving and enjoying themselves in the process. From where we live, our kids can walk to all four of the schools that they attend (with an exception if my daughter decides on Canyon Crest instead of Torrey Pines). The community is planned with walking routes through the neighborhoods that begin/terminate at the various schools. It's very nice to see lots of kids walking to and from school in the morning and afternoon. Reminds me of when I grew up in inner city Philadelphia. Parents are very involved in the school system. In addition to schools, there is a plethora of other activities for kids including sports, music, Adventure Guides/Princesses, scouts, and so on. We joke that CV is Disneyland for kids. Like most of SoCal, CV is very participation sports oriented. Soccer, baseball, swimming, football, surfing (surfing is a PE elective in some schools), etc. are all very well represented. On the downside, soccer for example can start at 6:00 AM on weekends due to the high demand for fields.

Community: We've experiences a very strong community feel in CV. Though given our situation, much of our community involvement is though kids schools and activities. There are also a good number of churches/synagogues/etc (we don't participate), strong Asian community links (wife is Asian), and community support groups generally. There a a lot of very nice parks around. Also a lot of open space (which is generally true of SD because of the canyons and mesas). I like the fact that there are a lot of people walking through the neighborhood (with the exception of the small number of people who let their dogs 'go' on my lawn). It's a very safe neighborhood.

So what's not to like? You do spend a lot of time driving places as it's fairly spread out. Some of the newer neighborhoods still have that cookie cutter feel, though that's pretty much gone in west CV as the neighborhoods mature. There aren't a lot of restaurants close by, though that is starting to change for the better.

All tolled, we've had a very positive experience in CV. Happy to answer any other questions you might have.

[NYSD1995]

cookie cutter, high density, heavy traffic. Not a fan but it's great for the kids, commutes, and access to beaches. Personally I would rather have a less house in a quieter area further north.

[bigdaddy5]

"Carmel Valley isn't Del Mar"
Saw this on someone's license plate holder while having lunch in Del Mar Heights.

[kettlepot]

One time, I was speaking publicly about neighborhoods and used Carmel Valley as the poster child for soulless suburbia. The number one thing I did not want in a neighborhood was one dominated by garage doors and driveways, and otherwise unwalkable because of its curbside sterility. However, most of Carmel Valley's positives were not on my radar screen but they are on yours. Different people; different criteria.

[Family Moving to Hawaii]

I would highly recommend looking at 1) Rancho Penasquitos (PQ), 2) Scripps Ranch and 3) Rancho Bernardo in that order. I live in PQ. 75% of biotech jobs, which is my industry, are in Sorrento Valley. If you are set on buying a house before you line up a job, then PQ is very central to everything. The commute to Sorrento Valley in the morning is 20-30 minutes depending upon where in PQ you are. Getting home is 25-35. The schools are all 9s and 10s. We live in an area in PQ where the Elementary, Middle and High School are all walking distance. I can't tell you how amazing that is. Morning school traffic is terrible for those that are dropping off kids. You will get more house for your money in PQ as well. You can get probably 3,200-3,600 square feet with 5 BR in PQ for $1m. But, I must warn you, getting a house anywhere in SD remotely is going to be a huge challenge unless you are willing to buy without looking at the property. Because multiple offers and bidding wars are not just common, they are the norm. In the areas I have mentioned, and probably CV as well, inventory is really low. Houses will get full and over asking price offers in the first couple of days. Don't go into it thinking you have any negotiating power as the buyer.


Renting sucks, and you will likely miss out on some home appreciation. Also, if you rent for a year, then you are even more restricted with your search for a purchase property, if you want to avoid yet another elementary school switch. You also end up buying a bunch of furniture for the rental that won't work in your purchased property. We rented for a year when we moved to SD, but that was when the housing market was tanking, so it worked out really well for us.


As far as downtown, I think downtown would SUCK to live in with kids. The other person is 100% accurate in that CV and the other areas I have listed will feel exactly like suburbs. However, you are still close to the things that make San Diego great.