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Old 11-23-2016, 07:54 PM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,909,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
As long as we are a collection of States I don't see it changing...

The Senate represents the States... no matter how large or small they are equal.

The House Represents the People... so size matters.

Call me sentimental... but I really do root for the underdog or little guy...
I think one way we could improve the electoral college (because it's not going away) is to have states give their electoral votes based on vote percentage - or based on "mini-states" (groups of counties?) - or something else along those lines.

There are a lot of people's voices that are not heard in large states that routinely vote one way (i.e. CA (east west divide), TX (cities vs. rest of the state), NY (upsate vs. NYC metro)). To me, that'd be much more fair and still keep the current electoral system.

Some states do this, but I think all should if we're after a "fairer" system.
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:06 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
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This would seem very doable at a State Level... as mentioned we already have exceptions.

If California would apportion than maybe a third of it's electoral votes would go to Trump...

Unless most States get on board I can't see this happening in California but anything is possible.

Several Electors have said they are not voting in accordance with their State... interesting times for sure.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:13 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 7,101,396 times
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I have seen three possible suggestions with regard the the electoral college, since no one I have heard thinks that the constitution should be changed.

Since states can change the rules of how the electors vote,
1. The electors in a given state are assigned proportionally to the popular vote in that state
2. The electors in a state are directed to vote for who ever received the highest number of popular votes, nation-wide.
3. The electors are assigned proportionally to the nation-wide vote (rather than the state vote.)

I heard a commentator on radio today stating (I don't know if what he was saying was accurate) that there needs to be some resolution of Trump's massive and world-wide conflicts of interest, or at least a plan for how this will be dealt with before the electors vote in December, because if it isn't resolved, electors may decide that his world-wide entanglements make him unable to be president. I find that hard to believe, as I think that most electors (both Republican and Democratic) are party people who selected for party loyalty, not for their constitutional understanding or ability to make judgments about conflicts or interest, blind trusts, etc.
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:19 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
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Trump is an elected official and the standard civil service restrictions do not apply.

He was elected and anyone would be hardpressed not to know of his business interests.

President and Vice President also have more latitude in that they are allowed income from business interests disclosed.

Think about how many Presidents have had business interests... many were farmers with Carter being a peanut farmer and founding fathers all having business interests.

Trump has authourity in 500 business enterprises...

Many do put money into Trusts or resigned from Boards or even sold their interests.

President Obama did none of the above... he opted NOT to put his money into a blind trust, but his holdings are almost entirely made up of bland investments like U.S. Treasuries and mutual funds.

President Trump Won't Have To Tell CEO Trump 'You're Fired' | The Huffington Post

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/16/news...ics/index.html
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,268,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
It's all about protecting minority voices and the right to for a place at the table...Without an Electoral College many States would become insignificant.
That's not entirely correct, the original argument was that ordinary Americans would lack sufficient information to choose directly and intelligently among leading presidential candidates. The second reason it was advocated was to give slave states a 'fair' voice in elections since their population was composed of a large number of slaves whose vote only counted for 3/5 of a non slave vote It is also useful to consider that difference in the population of a small state vs a large state was far less than it is today.

According to the 2010 census, Wyoming has just over 560,000 people. Those people get three electoral votes, or one per 186,000 people. California, our most populous state, has more than 37 million people. Those Californians have 55 electoral votes, or one per 670,000 people. Comparatively, people in Wyoming have nearly four times the power in the Electoral College as people in California. Put another way, if California had the same proportion of electoral votes per person as Wyoming, it would have about 200 electoral votes.

It's real nice to live in California and watch New Hampshire decide an election
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:34 AM
 
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I live in California and often think California is the bully on the block... our Bay Area leaders pick and choose as to what laws are enforced.

Does my heart good that Wyoming still matters when it comes to things on a national level.
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Old 11-24-2016, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,268,189 times
Reputation: 34058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Trump is an elected official and the standard civil service restrictions do not apply. He was elected and anyone would be hardpressed not to know of his business interests.
President and Vice President also have more latitude in that they are allowed income from business interests disclosed. Think about how many Presidents have had business interests... many were farmers with Carter being a peanut farmer and founding fathers all having business interests.
Trump has authourity in 500 business enterprises...
Many do put money into Trusts or resigned from Boards or even sold their interests.
President Obama did none of the above... he opted NOT to put his money into a blind trust, but his holdings are almost entirely made up of bland investments like U.S. Treasuries and mutual funds.
In the first place why would Obama be expected to put holding in US Treasuries or mutual funds in a blind trust? There is a world of difference between Obama or any other past president and Trump. Trump owns or has an interest in 500 businesses worldwide. Trump met with the President of Argentina and three days later the permit for the project in Argentina which had been stalled for a long time is approved. It would be naive to call that a coincidence, and he has already tried to exert his influence to benefit himself in Scotland, it's not likely to stop any time soon

For Trump to personally manage his vast real estate holdings while he is President, or even if he turns them over to his children who seem to co-presidents, is unprecedented. He might be able to 'legally' pull it off but I don't think he's going to be able to continue the charade that he is somehow an 'agent of change', while enriching himself and simultaneously walking back his campaign promises.
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Old 11-24-2016, 10:08 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
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Trump is unprecedented and that is what made him President...

He ran on his vast experience making deals on a worldwide stage.

Candidate Romney did the disclosure and divesting and the double blind trusts... didn't land him the job of President... he was also soft spoken and polite.

As stated... President Obama is the first President in Generations that refused to put his holdings into a Trust or divest...

Candidate Trump was adamant that he would not make public his Tax Returns while under audit... if enough people thought this a problem he would not be President Elect today...

The fact is Presidents and Vice Presidents under law are not subject to the same rules as others in civil service...

No one had a problem with President Carter stand of farms bills with his entire family worth tied to farming.

I realize it is going to be hard for many to accept that Trump will be like none of his predecessors... he has ZERO political experience in office and no military experience unless you count boarding school... I expect to be surprised by his actions and statements daily...

Kennedy made his brother Attorney General and it has stood the test of time...
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:05 AM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,231,974 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking View Post
Oh my. Fresh off being eviscerated in the other thread, now you're think you're going to engage me in an Economics debate? Hilarious! I hardly think you could debate anyone in an Economics argument.

When someone goes into plausible deniability when confronted with facts they can't retort, I don't waste any more time with them (I get very bored with that style of debating). As stated in the other thread, I'm sorry if I pierced your bubble. The best thing for you at this point is that play doh, therapy dogs, and a counselor. I can't help you any more than that.

Take care.

Right, the poster who disappeared after being confronted with facts after making several feeble attempts at introducing irrelevant information is here on this thread pretending he's won that debate.

Who are you trying to fool here? We both know all you do is repeat right-wing blogs and your knowledge goes no deeper than Breitbart News.

Notice that you have made no attempt to address my point. I said you don't know the difference between creating money and borrowing money. There are literally hundreds of things you can say that would prove me wrong, but you did none of it. When pressed for facts or knowledge, your response is always "play doh, therapy dogs, and a counselor". Whatever that means.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking View Post
I can't help you any more than that.
Of course you can't help me, or anyone for that matter. This may be your most honest statement yet.
.
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Old 11-25-2016, 01:27 AM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,231,974 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post

Call me sentimental... but I really do root for the underdog or little guy...

By all means, root for the little guys.

But there is no reason to bend the rules in their favor.

And then act surprise when the big boys complain that the rules are bend in the other team's favor.
.
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