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It's the pension battle between the city and police (& fire) unions. Can't afford an adequately-staffed police dept. right now.
I guess hindsight is 20/20, but I heard about the pension issue from people I know in San Jose. The reductions were probably too draconian and should have been phased in more gradually. People under-estimated the officers willingness to go to other police departments or overlooked that factor altogether. Neighborhoods that never had a crime issue suddenly had some home invasions, vandalism, etc.
The affordability issue has little credibility when you see the upscale cars driving the roads and drive around the new upscale neighborhoods like Silver Creek Valley CC, etc. The people of San Jose can afford a quality police force and more easily than some other cities.
It is just a matter of setting priorities. Do you want the most top of the line car or do you want your family protected? Certainly the pensions needed some adjustment. Almost any reasonable person can conclude it was probably too draconian. Again, this is hindsight, so I am definitely no genius!
Disagree. My company recruits there heavily, mainly because it is local. Yes, you do get some good engineering students, just because its in the Silicon Valley. However, on average, I find the quality to be much lower than Cal/Stanford, along with other UC's and even Cal Poly.
I do not believe it rates at the exact same level as Cal/Stanford (though close in engineering). If a university of SJSU's quality were located in a city like Sacramento, Phoenix, Salt Lake City or Omaha, it would get a lot more attention in the region. Well, they finally got it for the football team's performance last year and one of the best two year improvements ever. They'll take it! They also deserve it for the academics.
You probably have already guessed correctly that I am an SJSU alum (graduated in 1984).
Along with that proximity is the benefit of nearby micro-climates. I remember one weekend back in 1994 where the temps were unusually hot and around near record 100 degrees (for that day) and I went down to Monterey and stayed at a motel on a Saturday night where temps had dropped to upper 70's during the day and much cooler at night. The same type of summer "cooling" can also be had by going north to San Francisco, Pacifica, or north Peninsula cities (San Mateo County). These cooler areas (talking temps, not trendiness!) tend to have the most natural beauty, too.
Most areas of the country have the same exact weather for their entire region or metro area, so this is a benefit.
San Jose State is a very good university and often under-rated as it is in the same region as Stanford and Cal-Berkeley.
Cost of living is the main challenge and especially after getting laid off.
Yes, this is all true, with the exception of SJSU. I don't think it's any better than any other school in the Cal State system. The one drawback of the microclimates though, is that when it's hot in the valley, everyone gets the same idea to head for the coast, causing massive traffic congestion if it's hot on the weekend. If it's hot during the workweek, well, you still have to go to work...so sometimes it's not worth the aggravation...but it is still a benefit of living in this area.
You are very right that it's definitely more difficult to be unemployed in this area. The pay in retail and other low paying jobs will just not even come close to covering your expenses if you have lost a good paying job.
I guess hindsight is 20/20, but I heard about the pension issue from people I know in San Jose. The reductions were probably too draconian and should have been phased in more gradually. People under-estimated the officers willingness to go to other police departments or overlooked that factor altogether. Neighborhoods that never had a crime issue suddenly had some home invasions, vandalism, etc.
That whole "phase things in gradually" sounds good, but the reality is the unions dragged it out until they were forced to do otherwise. I am a City of SJ employee and I saw this coming years ahead of time with my own union, not to mention the super greedy police & firefighter unions. Many long time City employees saw that the police & firefighters' salaries and benefits were gobbling up a larger and larger share of the City's general fund budget long before the economy crashed in 2008.
We desperately need financial literacy to be taught in the schools.
People just don't understand pension math. They. Just. Don't. When your pension plan doesn't perform at the 8% expected return for a decade or more, and then you have a stock market crash like we did in 2008...the math is draconian.
Just to give you a real life example. I got my benefits statement from the City of SJ for 2012. I made 45.5K in 2012. 13% of my gross pay went toward my pension. The City of SJ's contribution was 24.4K on top of my salary. So the City paid more than 50% of my salary toward my pension in order to keep the pension fund solvent. The situation is MUCH worse for police and firefighters because their pensions replace a higher % of their salaries and they can retire as early as age 50.
What should have happened is that the police union should not have lobbied for pension benefits that pay out 90% of their final year's salary after 30 years, as they did in 2001 (and the City should not have signed off on said benefits). It used to be 70% before 2001. It should have stayed at that level and then the financial crush would have been much less severe.
We desperately need financial literacy to be taught in the schools.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-14-2013 at 02:46 PM..
^^ I am right with you, sir! For the ones who are new to our city's pension fund fightings, please take note of these points:
1) Sensationalism is being used on BOTH sides.
2) Not all city workers are paid like cops/firefighters. In fact, MOST are not.
Quote:
Yes, this is all true, with the exception of SJSU. I don't think it's any better than any other school in the Cal State system.
I would beg to differ. SJSU consistently rank in the top 5 of CSU schools, especially in Engineering/CompSci/Nursing. I mean, do you seriously think Cal State Monterey Bay is on the same level as SJSU?
Quote:
You probably have already guessed correctly that I am an SJSU alum (graduated in 1984).
High Fives!!!! I'm 20 years after you, Class of 2004, Comp Sci, MacQuerrie Hall Pride!
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The affordability issue has little credibility when you see the upscale cars driving the roads and drive around the new upscale neighborhoods like Silver Creek Valley CC, etc. The people of San Jose can afford a quality police force and more easily than some other cities.
The upscale cars are all payment-driven. It does not take much to get into an upscale car these days. The upscale neighborhoods are filled with upper-class folks who generally has enough money to pay other people to hide their money for them. It's always the middle-class who ends up with the tax bill. And when I mean, middle-class, I mean "Bay Area Middle-Class", not the usual middle-class of other areas or other states...
Last edited by bobby_guz_man; 04-14-2013 at 10:59 PM..
^^ I am right with you, sir! For the ones who are new to our city's pension fund fightings, please take note of these points:
1) Sensationalism is being used on BOTH sides.
2) Not all city workers are paid like cops/firefighters. In fact, MOST are not.
I know I probably sound like a shill for top level management..but I think 90% of the sensationalism is coming from the unions. For 2011 the City's pension contribution for me was 12.7K. For 2012, it was 24.4K....and the 24.4K was on a lower salary because of pay cuts implemented in mid 2011. If that isn't a draconian cost increase, I don't know what is. I will say only full time employees are part of the pension plan...That means a lot of folks working in the Parks & Library departments are not getting those pensions, since many of them are part time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_guz_man
I would beg to differ. SJSU consistently rank in the top 5 of CSU schools, especially in Engineering/CompSci/Nursing. I mean, do you seriously think Cal State Monterey Bay is on the same level as SJSU?
Yeah, I pretty much think they're the same overall....Sure Cal State Monterey Bay is newer and smaller and doesn't have as many programs as a result...so not a completely fair comparison....but I really don't think anyone perceives one Cal State school as better than another, with the possible exception of Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Just my opinion.
[quote=mysticaltyger;29127831]I know I probably sound like a shill for top level management..but I think 90% of the sensationalism is coming from the unions. For 2011 the City's pension contribution for me was 12.7K. For 2012, it was 24.4K....and the 24.4K was on a lower salary because of pay cuts implemented in mid 2011. If that isn't a draconian cost increase, I don't know what is. I will say only full time employees are part of the pension plan...That means a lot of folks working in the Parks & Library departments are not getting those pensions, since many of them are part time.
I feel for you. You went into this job with the assumption that the pension and benefits promised to you would be there for as long as you were employed. I believe most of us assume that people working in the public service sector have a lower take home wage in trade for better pension and benefits. I can only speak from my personal experience. My father in law retired from the City of San Jose in the early 1990's. He was a high school graduate ( no college at all) and worked his way up over the years from the bottom to senior management in the Parks Dept of the City of San Jose. I have no idea what his salary was but at the time he retired he was drawing about $ 60,000/ yr in retirement. He also cashed in a bunch of sick leave/unused vacation time and for the two or three years before he retired he had so much accumulated sick time he worked 3 days/ week to use up the leave he could not cash out. As a self employed person I had no vacation time. Any time taken off from the business was simply done for sanity as when you are self employed and don't work you do not generate income. At that time my wife ( masters degree) and I ( doctoral degree ) were both working and earning about $ 80,000-90,000/ yr gross with three kids and a mortgage. After taxes, payments on my business, and student loans we were living on about $40,000- 50,000/yr max. This was before the mortgage/ food /diapers/utilities/ car payments, etc. My father in law's house was paid off at that time, he never had student loans. I am not begrudging him his retirement but we were flabbergasted that he was making that much in retirement. We have since moved on, relocated to a new state (but have strong connections to the Silly Valley, probably about 75% of our family lives there or within 90 miles of it) and have substantially increased our income, raised our kids, and are finally financially stable. I even have a pension coming in the future, just like city of San Jose employees. But my defined benefit pension will only provide me about 40% of my projected income. I work for a private, not for profit hospital system and they have eliminated their defined benefit pension plan for employees hired after 2009. Our pension plan is fully funded by the hospital system and is solvent but they eliminated it because administration felt it was too expensive to provide this benefit in the future and have since switched to a defined contribution plan ( 403b). I also have a 403 b that I max out ( $ 23,000 this year that I contribute) and my employer will contribute about $9200 this year. I think public service employees are going to have to adjust to the new reality that gov't entities will no longer be able to provide these generous benefits going forward and some realignment between take home pay and pension/benefit package has to occur before widespread bankruptcy ( Stockton) occurs throughout the U.S.
Last edited by WeakandDizzy; 04-15-2013 at 06:36 AM..
Reason: better estimates of numbers
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