Is San Jose a world class city? (San Francisco, Oakland: credit, house)

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by HockeyMac18

Neutrino: This is the last post I'll make on these topics since it is not what this thread is about. We have gone around in circles here...and I don't mean to be offensive, but I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

I'm the one who actually grew up here. You briefly worked at Stanford. I wasn't born here, but I've lived in Silicon Valley most of my life, since I was a small child.

Palo Alto is quintessentially Silicon Valley. You should know, since you supposedly worked at Stanford. This is a distinction of culture, history, business and political boundaries, rather than a geological distinction.

It may well be the case that a geologist could demonstrate that Palo Alto is technically on the Peninsula.
That's not the point. When people say "oh, Palo Alto? Palo Alto is part of the peninsula", they're saying, "you guys in Silicon Valley have no culture". It is that to which I am responding.

In the context of this discussion, Palo Alto is part of Silicon Valley. Any amenities that snobs want to say are not part of Silicon Valley because they are in Palo Alto are in fact part of Silicon Valley. The Cantor Arts Center at Stanford is a feature of Silicon Valley. So is Stanford in general as a cultural institution. PARC is part of Silicon Valley. HP is part of Silicon Valley. The Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View is part of Silicon Valley. Villa Montalvo in Saratoga is part of Silicon Valley.

Considering you grew up here, I'd think this is basic local knowledge...apparently it is not.

Sir, the basic local knowledge is that Palo Alto is in Silicon Valley.

Call your friends at Stanford and ask them if their institution is part of Silicon Valley. Specifically, call someone at Stanford who teaches computer science. Stanford, PARC and HP are founding institutions of Silicon Valley. Palo Alto is therefore a feature of Silicon Valley, and Silicon Valley shares the amenities of Palo Alto.

[BicoastalAnn]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

If you were from here, you would know that the phrase "San Jose is a world class city" implies that the surrounding suburbs in Santa Clara County are being included, as Cupertino, for example, is for all practical purposes a suburb of San Jose. That is not the case de juris, but it is most definitely the case de facto.

No kid grows up in Silicon Valley and says "man, Cupertino sucks. I have to go all the way to Santa Clara to go to Great America". That's a silly statement, because all these suburbs are very close together. You can be in San Jose on one side of the street, and be in Santa Clara when you cross to the other side of the street. The only people who make such statements are people who are from another place in the state or the country and came here for a job, and intend to return when they have saved up some money to buy a SFH in their home town. To those of us who grew up here, Cupertino and San Jose are analogous to Brooklyn and Manhattan.

Having said that, by itself, the City of San Jose has museums, an opera, a ballet company, live theater, a community college, lots of great parks, a state university, a public transit system and an international airport.

So yes, San Jose is a world class city.

Um, so does Charlotte, Phoenix, Orlando, and a slew of other cities you'd probably consider flyover cities. Those things alone don't make a world class city. Especially... a community college? Really? Now you're really reaching.

And, yes I can see how for someone who grew up there, they might think it was the center of the world. That part's pretty clear to me.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

yeah, SF has no heavy hitters. Twitter and Salesforce are such a joke.

San Francisco has lots of heavy hitters. Investment management institutions, banks, famous restaurants, landmarks known throughout the world.

But no, Twitter and Salesforce are not major entities in the tech world. Twitter is a major force in social media, yes, definitely. But I wouldn't say they shape any technological standards. Contrast that with Facebook, which has evolved into a software platform unto itself. And having a tech company or two does not classify a city as being in Silicon Valley. Oracle is a major force in the tech world, but it is not a Silicon Valley company any more than Microsoft or IBM, both of which are also major companies in the "tech" field.

Again, by your logic, Los Angles, New York and London are all part of Silicon Valley, since tech startups have been created in all three cities.

"Silicon Valley" refers to:

• a specific region, defined by political boundaries
• the relationships and interactions between certain businesses and certain educational and research institutions
• the culture among engineers, computer enthusiasts, etc. in the specific region known as Silicon Valley
• the culture among the general public in said region

None of this stuff involves San Francisco, other than the fact that proximity to San Francisco is part of the reason for the success of Silicon Valley. Again, it is equally true that proximity to Silicon Valley is part of the reason for the success of San Francisco. This also applies to Oakland and its deep water port. It used to be that San Francisco was the major center of maritime operations north of Los Angeles, but now it is Oakland.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by BicoastalAnn

Um, so does Charlotte, Phoenix, Orlando, and a slew of other cities you'd probably consider flyover cities. Those things alone don't make a world class city.

Yes, but those other places are smaller and don't have the resources of San Jose. They also aren't the coordinating force of a phenomenon that has changed the world.

Edit: those things do make San Jose a functional modern city, as opposed to "a huge suburb" as the cultural snobs would say.

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

How can it be the case that you can't afford it if I can? Explain how that makes sense. You make more money than me, do you not? Are you spending more than 33% of your income on housing? If so, that's your mistake, not mine, my friend. My name and my signature are on a lease here in Silicon Valley, and I pay $500 per month for rent, which is approximately 33% of my income.

And yes, only snobs think that Palo Alto is somehow not in Silicon Valley. Palo Alto is actually in Santa Clara County, and Stanford, Xerox PARC and HP were all started there. A claim that it is not part of Silicon Valley is just a pathetic attempt to prove that Silicon Valley doesn't have any culture or great cultural institutions, which is an idiotic position.

I have never said I can't afford to live in the Bay Area. FWIW, you're paying way more of a percentage of your income to live with your dad to share a 1 BR apartment than I am living in Jack London Square. I've been here almost a decade and figured out how to make it work, but I don't actively encourage people to come live here on a meager salary when they're doing perfectly well in other parts of the country where their dollars go farther. My partner and I don't have kids and do alright, but we both would have left several years ago if we had other mouths to feed and wanted to ensure they went to good schools and had a good life. It's called common sense.

And for the last time: not one single person in this thread has said that Palo Alto ISN'T a part of Silicon Valley. All we've said is that plenty of tech companies are located on the peninsula in places like Mountain View, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, San Mateo, etc.

You have serious reading comprehension issues and obviously don't know how to read a map, let alone understand basic population numbers of Bay Area cities. Given your asinine, repetitive responses on this board, I'd be compelled to suggest you're actually some bot programed by some bored nerd, but I honestly think a bot would be smart enough to know that SF has twice as many people as Oakland.

[HockeyMac18]

Neutrino...you are utterly ridiculous. Are you like this in real life?

Two things:
One, I have already said this:

Originally Posted by HockeyMac18

I never said PA isn't in Silicon Valley. But it is on the peninsula. And it is in SV. It's possible for it to be in both.

So I have no idea why you keep coming at me with this argument. I've never claimed, or even implied for that matter, that PA or Stanford are not in SV ...You have yet again lost me.


Secondly, you ignored this:

Originally Posted by HockeyMac18

Please answer this simple question:
Do you consider Sequoia Capital to be a part of Silicon Valley?

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

I'm the one who actually grew up here. You briefly worked at Stanford. I wasn't born here, but I've lived in Silicon Valley most of my life, since I was a small child.

OK...good for you?...I know many people born here and they don't agree with your strange opinions on this matter.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Palo Alto is quintessentially Silicon Valley. You should know, since you supposedly worked at Stanford. This is a distinction of culture, history, business and political boundaries, rather than a geological distinction.

Um...again, I already know all of this. Thanks for the lesson, though?

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

It may well be the case that a geologist could demonstrate that Palo Alto is technically on the Peninsula.

Woah! Breakthrough! Finally!

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

That's not the point. When people say "oh, Palo Alto? Palo Alto is part of the peninsula", they're saying, "you guys in Silicon Valley have no culture". It is that to which I am responding.

When did I ever say any of this? You just invented an entire argument that no one here has put forth...

Going a step further, I've never in my years here ever heard anyone claim any of this, either (and why would they?). You must travel in strange circles if you actually hear people in real life say these things.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

In the context of this discussion, Palo Alto is part of Silicon Valley.

Yep.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Any amenities that snobs want to say are not part of Silicon Valley because they are in Palo Alto are in fact part of Silicon Valley.

See above...no one is claiming these points that you're getting bent out of shape about...and snobs? Haha...What are you talking about?

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

The Cantor Arts Center at Stanford is a feature of Silicon Valley. So is Stanford in general as a cultural institution. PARC is part of Silicon Valley. HP is part of Silicon Valley. The Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View is part of Silicon Valley. Villa Montalvo in Saratoga is part of Silicon Valley.

Sir, the basic local knowledge is that Palo Alto is in Silicon Valley.

Again...I never said it wasn't in SV. I'm quite familiar with this stuff, but thanks again for the unsolicited lesson.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

[/b][/i]Call your friends at Stanford and ask them if their institution is part of Silicon Valley. Specifically, call someone at Stanford who teaches computer science. Stanford, PARC and HP are founding institutions of Silicon Valley. Palo Alto is therefore a feature of Silicon Valley, and Silicon Valley shares the amenities of Palo Alto.

Why would I call my Stanford friends to ask such a ridiculous question? Especially since I know what they'd say (since I did work with the CS dept on many projects).

I've already asked multitudes of my local Bay Area native (as in born here) friends (up to 9 now)...and they all agree. PA = peninsula & SV.

The end? I think it's time to let go, my friend.

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by simboticus

Get a life, this horse has been beat to death many times over.

and BTW "Silicon Valley" is NOT a state of mind as someone stated earlier, it's a geographic region who's boundaries can be debated endlessly by nerds with nothing better to do.

I'm that someone. It is both - and I shall explain.

Yes, Silicon Valley is a geographic region but it's not necessarily just limited to its original area of Santa Clara County as some folks are arguing. You'll find tech companies that are in Alameda County (like Fremont), San Mateo County (such as Redwood City, San Mateo - like GoPro), and increasingly, in cities like SF and Oakland. It's expanded a bit afield.

So for that reason, I've also commented that given the geographic flexibility of the industry, Silicon Valley can be seen as more of a mindset, a mentality, a cultural thing. That's really harder to duplicate in other places - I think other countries and regions are trying to do that...

[the topper]

San Jose is truly a world class city!!!

[marcopolo666]

No it's not - the art offerings are pitiful. Hell - Stanford, *a university*, has better art offerings.

[dogandcat]

Originally Posted by marcopolo666

No it's not - the art offerings are pitiful. Hell - Stanford, *a university*, has better art offerings.

No Stanford is not *a university* but definitely The University