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No. Intolerance, socialist-minded politics and regulation/legislation go hand-in-hand. Modern liberals simply use the idea of intolerance to justify being intolerant of the stereotypical behavior they think fosters intolerance and stereotype those they hate for all the flaming done in the past when America was culturally ignorant, emotionally stagnant. Modern liberals feel they are re-cycling 'hate tactics' and cleverly using tham against their enemies, which are profuse due to the odd way they demand tolerance for blind social advancement without regard to the consequences or responsibility- or (gasp) sensitivity to those with a different set of cultural principles. What they do not understand, nor really care about, is that they too are tools and being directed to rally behind causes that ultimately will sideline their own goals and prosperity for the sacrifices of being correct about things that one can never be correct about.
Sorry. Seattle, far from enlightenment, suffers greatly from its hitherto isolation in this regard and it has always had a rather 'gunboat diplomacy' aspect to its social strata due to the oddly mutated puritanism that still festers in the town, mixed up as it is with Jesus, Marxist leanings and 'Wild West' independence. But Boomers, hippies or not, can only live so long and the inevitable joining with the rest of the empire has diluted the heraldic tincture of socialized weeping and hedonistic impulsive political stances. Besides, I think a lot of the old-school Seattleites realized what their laissez-faire attitudes did to their young.
I don't at all like the type of person Mr. Luntz is, but I have seen this "occupy" jealousy many times first-hand as have many others. Understandable but sad, mostly due to the cult of victimhood used for furthering socio-political purposes to 'battle' fundamentalists and the conformity to dogma and worship to tired customs. Yes, even liberals eat 'their' own, sacrificed up for the 'greater good'.
Seattle has never been friendly to me.....it is always been polite from a distance only. I also feel the militantly liberal, feminisitic views and lifestyles are much more intolerant per say, then any more religious or conservative group or region in the USA.....For Instance I actually find more right leaning, conservative Christians ten times more inviting, and more genuinely friendly. Also Austin Texas is very liberal like Seattle.....yet ten times friendlier...hmmm? Why is that. I was in the military and been everywhere in the USA, not just WA state and CA like so many I encounter in Seattle. I have found that Seattle is mostly introverted/anti-social, and that is not healthy for the soul if one is more gregarious. I feel it is wrong to be avoid-ant, and apathetic, and overly standoffish toward your fellow man or woman due to college background and worldly status. Many consider Seattle stuck up. I tend to agree. Though they guise it in crafty ways socially. I think Seattle is a nice city all around otherwise. I am have also tried social groups and most of the time, it is a microcosm of the larger aloof nature of Seattle on display even within the meet up groups and social gatherings so I quit bothering with them, cause it turned out to be fruitless socially.
Granted, if you are a couple coming to Seattle, it can be a great experience because you have a loved one alongside you,.... or if you are a single woman, you will get over 400 responses to your singles ad in two days time. While men get zero to one response. The night life in Seattle stinks for a city it's size. Also, the establishments are teeming with single men on the hunt and not enough women to go around. Seattle is a single woman's paradise.
Add the standoffish factor on top of the cake, and your in for a socially exasperating experience in my opinion. I spent the longest ten yeas of my life in Seattle and would never return their. I found that most people disdain places like Texas, and New York and tend to think they are much more evolved and even nicer and friendlier than most other places in the USA. They do like to refer to New Yorkers as being obnoxious, rude and overly aggressive, and Texans as rednecks, backwoods and religious zealots. Get them heated up in a debate and this stuff comes right out of them....lol.
Yes Seattle disdains assertive, gregarious souls....and they will tell you, and it will show. I spent years dealing with flakes in Seattle. People who act interested, yet never follow through, and never pick up the phone, and have little to no enthusiasm for human communication. Once you confront them on their lack of social respect and etiquette, they will spit venom at you then discard you for life with no possibility of forgiveness. We refer to them as being hyper-sensitive in Seattle. Even the cashiers at local supermarkets reek of superficial attempts at congenial smalltalk and friendliness. I think it is true, that this is an introverts town, where the cultivation of new friendships, though not impossible, depending on your personality type,.... is like pulling teeth. I realize this is not everyone's experience, but it was mine. Seattle is still a great city, just was not for me socially speaking.
Frankums I will turn this subject back to Seattle in order to not derail the thread. We in Washington are looking at allowing gay marriage. A right that doesn't affect anyone that isn't gay and just let's those that are live their lives. It is supported by numerous local companies including Microsoft, Starbucks, Boeing, Google, etc. who feel that legalizing gay marriage is good for business and good for recruiting, giving them access to the best talent. Gay marriage advocates gain corporate support - Abby Phillip - POLITICO.com
There are those who want to restrict a right which, if they are not gay, does not affect them. It is interesting that a group would want a law limited to a segment of people and say this segment cannot do something. I would call that legislating intolerance. If the justification is "religious freedom", where is the line on that? Are there laws pitting Hanukkah against Christmas? If you do not eat meat based on religious reasons are there laws requiring restaurants to offer a vegetarian alternative? If you are not religious, are there laws saying Bibles cannot not be in hotels? Why take a group of people and say we want to create laws that apply only to them? I would like to think it's generational and will age out over time.
As for Occupy, they were protesting over the bailouts which benefited the banks at the painful cost of some individuals. They felt it was all too passive, that no one was giving a voice to those that were harmed while the banks were given billions and suffered no loss. Did they go too far in some instances? Sure, it's was a bunch of individuals. Did Tea Party people go too far many times such as when they jeered a man sitting on the ground with Parkinson's disease? Yes. You can make cases for both.
Also Austin Texas is very liberal like Seattle.....yet ten times friendlier...hmmm?
This is at least the second time you've mentioned Texas being better. What is stopping you from moving to Texas? I think anyone that likes Texas more, should be in Texas. Life is short, you should go there.
I think Seattle is a very nice city.....due to the nature, the economy, the new-ness and overall appearance of the city compared to other older cities back east, the lack of real bad and crime riddled areas, and ..well...that is about it in my opinion. Here are the reasons I have left the region. Firstly, the summers are seriously short ( I am always tickled when people say how beautiful the summers are in Seattle.....and how they love to point this out), and Seattle only gets around 60 days of sunshine a year! It is also way too crowded nowadays, and the traffic is one of the worst in the USA. It is also expensive in Seattle...from rent to food to the median cost of a home being over 400,000 dollars. Seattle has got some diversity, mainly Asians, yet still is a very predominantly Scandinavian/white city. There is not a great amount of ethnic culture in Seattle within the Caucasian/European heritage element in Seattle.
Seattle is one of the most liberal cities in America and wears that badge very proudly. It is seemingly more accepting of folks who are more into the alternative lifestyle, such as those into getting tatted up, and folks who are heavily into yoga, new age belief systems, and holistic living lifestyles and etc. All in all, yes, there are tons of people who love and enjoy all this about Seattle...and feel wonderful about residing in Seattle. I understand that.
But here is the biggest factor as to why I left Seattle........the social climate...I found most people in Seattle (the locals from the area)......to be very civil, well-behaved and polite enough, but nearly impossible to get to know. Seattle in my view, is a very elitist city, a smart, highly educated populace more or less. For me, it was much too elitist. Most people I met immediately longed to know what you do for living. This was imperative to most the people I met over the years I spent there. As if not much else really mattered much to them. I went through the experience of being shunned tons of times due to this because I am in construction and not some Microsoft software developer or something. Also, with a huge Scandinavian influenced culture and heritage, I found most people to be too leery, too uptight, unenthusiastic, and very fickle in regard to the cultivation of new friendships.
No matter how wonderful a person you are, how loving, how kind, Seattle is one tough nut to crack socially if you are not from the region and do not fit real snugly into one of the very liberal sub-cultures. I found folks to primarily be much too standoffish, much to leery, and actually very silently judgmental. It just felt all very superficially friendly to me. Too uptight, and very anti-social, coupled with the elitist provincialism. It is like their is no zeal, for people, but more for pets, nature and alternative lifestyle views. I have never encountered such a tough social climate in all my travels abroad and in the USA.
I always felt it could be the Scandinavian influenced heritage affecting the social climate in the region. When I was in Germany years ago, I recall the Germans joking that if people thought they were reserved and aloof, one ought to go to Sweden and really see how reserved and hard to go to know the Swedes are.
Also, for single men new to the area, Seattle has over 50000 more single men than single women. The area has one of the worst demographics in the USA for single men. I assure you, it shows as well.
I just cant believe all the years I spend in social isolation in Seattle, not being from there and trying to cultivate new friendships. Folks are more introverted in Seattle, much less social, and not fond of people who are gregarious and overly friendly. There is something amiss in my opinion when it comes to dealing with people socially, in Seattle. I found no heart and soul in Seattle....seemed to be all about career, money, and being anti-social to the those who they do not know, or who do have glowing white collar careers, and who share their liberal views and lifestyles. It is the sort of social environment where ou may meet some folks here and there, they will say they will call you, get in touch, maybe go hang out sometime and etc.....yet then you simply never hear from them again. It is real strange. Just very flaky socially, like nowhere else I ever been in the USA. I had to leave due to my character and personality type. I was just way too friendly for Seattle, and genuine about it. Seattle is not for gregarious, and people loving social souls.
If you are more passive, want to be left alone, don't care to make many friends, are reserved, and like life that way......yes, then Seattle is a great city for sure.
You covered most of the reasons why we left. Seattle is by far the dreariest, most over priced, over rated, socially retarded, head deep up its own ass city that I've ever experienced. The funny thing is most our friends in seattle were also desperately looking for a way out. You go to seattle, get your education, money whatever and get the hell out asap. The only people that want to stay do so because they haven't had the opportunity to experience anything better. I almost feel bad for them... almost.
This thread should be made into a sticky at the top of the seattle forum.
Do you really think the Occupy protests were based on jealousy? That whole "they are jealous" was well-tested messaging created and fine-tuned by the likes of Frank Luntz.
That's ALL they were. "We wasted 4 years of our daddy's money on a liberal arts or Western Civilization degree, and now we're mad that all we can be are Starbuck's baristas while these other people are successful, and we want to force them to give us some of what they've earned".
That's Seattle's cultural activist mindset in a nutshell as it pertains to this. It's a huge reason why so many more rational people left the city and fled to the suburbs.
You make some good points, but you're way off on others. As to the social climate: Yes, Seattle is a VERY liberal city, and if you don't fit neatly into one of the circles of whackjob extremist belief systems, you will likely have a hard time making social inroads within the city. Most of them only preach tolerance and acceptance as long as your "thing" is the same thing that they've got going on for them - they're highly intolerant of anybody who's not just like them with the bicycle worship and the 'save the planet' BS etc.....which is ironic. But that's the key phrase there: within the city. Leave the city and go east, and suddenly it's not so ardently activist blue anymore. My S/O and I have had no troubles building social circles (we don't do well with extremists from either side of the belief aisle) and, not surprisingly, most of those people are from Bellevue, Mercer Island, Redmond, Issaquah, etc. as opposed to Seattle, with some notable exceptions. We've learned to temper our expectations as it pertains to people who live in Seattle, and that's OK. We've come to accept that Seattle is a perpetually "young" city, and as people get older, they tend to leave the city because their views no longer align with the hipsters that think they're a hell of a lot cooler than they are.
On your perspective of dating: Yeah, the dating scene out here is harsh for a single guy. If you're single in this city, I feel for you no matter what your station in life. The overwhelming majority of single women I've come across in this area (and a good chunk of the non-single ones) have some sort of misfire going on, there is some serious female damage out this way. And I've still never grasped why it is they almost universally think that they're a lot more "all that" than they are. Maybe it's because they're outnumbered by 50,000, I don't know. But I know I'd hate to be single in a city where they perpetually think they're hotter than they are, smarter than they are, and classier than they are. I cringe every time a buddy regales the tale of a date gone bad: a woman thinks that just because she's moved up from Starbucks barista to sales rep at Nordstroms that suddenly she's entitled to some $100,000 a year software dev at Microsoft because now she's a "professional". Working in construction, I can see how you'd think the dating scene is a completely lost cause. Most of the people I work with are only one step away from that, and they're actually targeted by the area's women.
The last bit I'd touch on is your perception that if people aren't extroverted and gregarious that there is something wrong with them or "something is amiss". That's the problem with you extroverts - you think everybody should be extroverts. There's nothing wrong with being introverted, you just don't know how to interact with them. The thing about being in a city with so many brilliant introverts is this: If you can't stimulate them intellectually, we're going to dismiss you. We don't like "white noise" like extroverts do. We don't speak just for the sake of having something come spewing out of our mouths. That's what many extroverts can't understand. It's not that we're not friendly. And it's not a "it's not you, it's me" sort of thing - it really is you. We stop talking because we've disconnected from the conversation, as what you're saying doesn't interest us. That's all that is.
People are the same wherever you go. Seattle apparently has the same fire breathing Glenn Beckers that we have here in the South-just not as many. And we have hard core liberals like Seattle-just not as many.
I have a hard time believing that the majority of Seattle's single women have any more of a "misfire" or think they're "all that" than any other comparable city. And I doubt that each and every Starbuck server thinks they're owed a Microsoft engineer when they move up to a sales clerk.
Your description of an introvert is more of a description of a snob with delusions of grandeur. I know plenty of introverts-some MIGHT be brilliant but I can confidently say some are complete dolts-same with extroverts. Being talkative doesn't equal stupid and being quiet doesn't equal brilliant.
You covered most of the reasons why we left. Seattle is by far the dreariest, most over priced, over rated, socially retarded, head deep up its own ass city that I've ever experienced. The funny thing is most our friends in seattle were also desperately looking for a way out. You go to seattle, get your education, money whatever and get the hell out asap. The only people that want to stay do so because they haven't had the opportunity to experience anything better. I almost feel bad for them... almost.
This thread should be made into a sticky at the top of the seattle forum.
I support the sticky, judging by traffic, we have too many people here now.
Evergray I'm glad you made your way home to CA and can be happy again. So what makes you keep coming back to post against Seattle? If you're gone and living happily in your new life, what brings you back here day after day and not post in the CA forum instead?
Frankums I will turn this subject back to Seattle in order to not derail the thread. We in Washington are looking at allowing gay marriage. A right that doesn't affect anyone that isn't gay and just let's those that are live their lives. It is supported by numerous local companies including Microsoft, Starbucks, Boeing, Google, etc. who feel that legalizing gay marriage is good for business and good for recruiting, giving them access to the best talent. Gay marriage advocates gain corporate support - Abby Phillip - POLITICO.com
And you believe that's a "liberal" philosophy? Really? How many times has Obama demanded a gay marriage bill? Gay marriage isn't a "liberal" philosophy - it's a philosophy adopted by everybody except the hardliners on the right. Contrary to what you might think, the single largest demographic/voting bloc are those of us in the middle. We're pretty much for it. That's not an agenda the liberals have a copyright on, at all.
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As for Occupy, they were protesting over the bailouts which benefited the banks at the painful cost of some individuals.
They were protesting to get their student loans wiped out, and more money for the unions, and forcing those of us who made something of our lives to subsidize theirs. They were demanding that, even though THEY chose to buy more house than they could afford, that they somehow be given that house, paid for by the taxpayer who was financially responsible with their actions. They had their hands out, no different than a bum at a street corner holding a sign. The only difference is they attached a broomstick or a 2x4 to their sign and held it up higher, and were louder in their demands. I saw many, MANY more acts of crime (sorry, "civil disobedience") from the Occupy people than I ever did from the tea party people. The Occupy crowd could be broken up into 4 types 1) 20 year old liberal arts or Western Culture majors who thought they knew everything about the world because they took a semester of civic studies, 2) Life failures looking for a handout, 3) union thugs wanting a bigger piece of a smaller pie, and 4) homeless people there for a free meal, who vanished as soon as the food station had to be torn down.
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