Seattle Downtown "tolling plan" (Tacoma: for rent, car registration, construction)

[thatguy950]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...enhouse-gases/

lol Seattle

it's almost as if they want to keep people out of downtown all together to drive out the rest of the small businesses still (barely) standing...

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by thatguy950

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...enhouse-gases/

lol Seattle

it's almost as if they want to keep people out of downtown all together to drive out the rest of the small businesses still (barely) standing...

Not people, but it has become obvious that they do want to keep cars out of downtown. The result will be less people, and less tax revenue, but more importantly, less revenue for the businesses, and less employment. What comes to mind is the old expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

[fnh]

First, it's not yet a plan but rather a proposed idea. Too soon to get your knickers in a knot. Second, depending on what the study finds, I could be fine with it.

Foreign cities that have implemented widespread tolling — London, Stockholm and Milan are prominent examples — have generally faced public opposition that faded away after the system was put in place and traffic congestion decreased.

This. Change is hard.

[JonasW]

Seattle isn't London, Stockholm, or Milan. Those places have excellent transportation systems to get people around, Seattle does not. The area around Seattle is car-centric. It's apples and oranges. The folks that willingly pay a $10 toll on a bridge will do the same DT. As always, follow the dollars not the lofty goals like 'greenhouse gases'.

[BATCAT]

I would rather we simply find a way to fund a modest expansion of frequency of Metro service downtown and then create more dedicated lanes and even dedicated streets, enough that buses can zip through downtown unobstructed. Let the cars sort it out with what roads are left.

If you really want to go there, how about we simply close downtown off to traffic that isn't transit, disabled people, and service/delivery/construction vehicles? I wouldn't lose any sleep over that but I can practically hear the roar of the potential outrage.

[rupp-certified]

Originally Posted by JonasW

Seattle isn't London, Stockholm, or Milan. Those places have excellent transportation systems to get people around, Seattle does not. The area around Seattle is car-centric. It's apples and oranges. The folks that willingly pay a $10 toll on a bridge will do the same DT. As always, follow the dollars not the lofty goals like 'greenhouse gases'.

The "greenhouse gas" thing is of course nonsense. However, a big problem with the metro service isn't lack of capacity (though often it does), but that buses get stuck in the same traffic as all the cars. Bus lanes barely seem to help. So if you want improved metro, you probably have to car reduce traffic downtown. Should everyone be able to clutter the roads for free?

[Botev1912]

Originally Posted by JonasW

Seattle isn't London, Stockholm, or Milan. Those places have excellent transportation systems to get people around, Seattle does not. The area around Seattle is car-centric. It's apples and oranges. The folks that willingly pay a $10 toll on a bridge will do the same DT. As always, follow the dollars not the lofty goals like 'greenhouse gases'.

+1

Politicians in Seattle cannot understand reducing cars can only be accomplished with excellent public transportation, not by creating more bike lanes.

[rkcarguy]

Evidentially everyone is supposed to bicycle to work. That would work great for me, get sweaty and rain soaked, and then join my boss in presentation for a project looking and smelling like a homeless man. (end sarcasm).
I say we fence off Seattle and succeed it to California.

[RotseCherut]

Oy Vey... The more revolutionary ideas coming from the Seattle City government the more happy and excited I am to be leaving the Seattle area and never to return. The city is going to end up being a complete mess and none of its far-reaching ideas will ever be implemented or be able to be sustained. As soon as Seattle's most respectable businesses pack their bag and flee for more sane cities, there will be an outcry and suddenly they will be having to scramble to reverse all the deranged policies they implemented that resulted in serious loss of revenue.

At the end of the day, everything boils down to money and power. Politicians can pamper and coddle all their deluded supporters, but once people start losing jobs and businesses decide they are not going to be paying their taxes to the city of Seattle and state of Washington, then the politicians will have to reverse course.

Oregon was striving to become the socialist utopia throughout the years, but started feeling the effects of their looney radical policies. After several other businesses packed up and left a state that already had a dying logging industry, which was Oregon's main revenue source for generations, they finally had to accommodate and appease companies like Nike to prevent the state from losing the last major revenue source it had. Yes, Phil Knight doesn't pay any taxes in Oregon. The state of Oregon has to accommodate the most evil of all capitalists in their state to the dismay of all the struggling, minimum-wage earners who think it s so unfair they have to pay taxes, yet multi-millionaire Phil Knight doesn't.

Washington will soon have to follow suit with accommodating its money makers, because the low-income progressive socialist class may be giving you all the votes, but they are not giving you much of the money. And, as I said, at the end of the day, even the liberal socialist progressive leftists are going to be angry once the city runs out of money and cannot fulfill all the promises of free/discounted housing, public transportation, food, booze, dope, health care, etc that the city government promises all its "progressive" voters.


As far as tolling the downtown area roads.. Absolutely ludicrous!! And, now they are giong to force landlords to charge for parking spaces!! Ludicrous! SO, what will the landlords do? Charge the same for rent and now charge extra for parking. Whoopie! But, it sounds so amazing and happy , free parking for all! That's how Seattle City Government pitches it.

So, they will toll the roads in downtown and now traffic will disappear and the carbon footprint will be minimized. Indeed, Fallujah's carbon foot print and traffic also was greatly reduced after the US invaded the city and it was reduced to rubble. Detroit's carbon footprint and traffic also was greatly reduced once all its industries closed and people packed up and left. Brilliant ideas!

I mean who doesn't want to ride the bus at night? Nevermind the fact that Seattle has an aging and inefficient bus system. You cannot even catch a bus to Tacoma past 8PM. The city government is so crooked that you can be sure that any additional revenue will be laundered to various traffic research programs that will be allotted by the city to be used as they see fit. It will be even less successful than the I-405 toll lanes, which have not remedied traffic at all, but helped increase the revenue for the state of Washington , significantly. In the meantime, our roads are falling to pieces, despite the fact the state of Washington is stealing from its tax payers with more excessive toll lanes, roads and exorbitant car registration fees.

[treuphax]

Originally Posted by JonasW

Seattle isn't London, Stockholm, or Milan. Those places have excellent transportation systems to get people around, Seattle does not. The area around Seattle is car-centric. It's apples and oranges. The folks that willingly pay a $10 toll on a bridge will do the same DT. As always, follow the dollars not the lofty goals like 'greenhouse gases'.

Stockholm, London, Milan... all lovely places worth visiting.

Seattle is a pox on the Puget Sound.
Blessed with probably the most fantastic natural setting in the US, the "wise" leadership stupidly squanders almost every asset. Elliot Bay & Lake Union Waterfronts? clogged with highways, traffic & parking lots.

A first world transit system that doesn't get stuck in traffic?
Two generations too late.
Now they're wasting tens of thousands per household to build yesterday's transit that is only within reach of a tiny fraction of those who need it yet all will be forced to pay.

I hardly objected to London's or Stockholm's congestion charges, but at least those cities offer some compelling reasons for a visit. Add this to the proposed head tax on employment, and they might actually succeed in reducing congestion as Seattle's employers & jobs hit the road...

It helps to view the city with outsiders' eyes and my recent guests couldn't get over the piles of trash & filth left by diggling junkie-zombies as well as their messy camps that those incapable of saying "no" insist we tolerate in public spaces & parks. In fact the outrageous locations and magnitudes of the homeless camps were some of the favorite photo motifs... Living in this filth & chaos one becomes inured to its ubiquity. Those from other places that manage to keep better order are better able to recognize it right away.

The tragedy: such outstanding natural blessings & prosperity squandered. The mountains, the water, the lush green... all lovely. But I repeat, more and more the failed urban state of Seattle is merely a pox on it all.

So for the tolling plan? Shopping or arts or culture in the city? Yet one more reason to give it wide berth.
Watch it become like the toll demanded from the troll under the bridge for those who simply can't avoid it or otherwise don't know better. I hear Seattle already even has an appropriately ugly troll for collecting the toll...



Pay the toll to the ugly troll!