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It's part of a series on small towns that people might be interested in, related to the question asked. It profiles Prince of Wales Island in Alaska, which I think is the second largest island in the United States (right behind Kodiak Island, also AK).
I leave you to read the article, but some advantages to living on PoW island, but also Alaska in general are:
(1) No building code on Prince of Wales Island. I think that is still the case at the current point in time. (2) I think certain portions of the island have no property taxes (and some do). The property taxes are minor at best. (3) Residents can get a permit (I guess is the procedure) to get their own lumber off of government land. You get a certain amount of board-feet and can use it either for firewood, or for lumber with which to build your own cabin. You can have the local mill plane the trees down for you for a very reasonable price, and make your cabin with lumber that you [yourself] took a hand in acquiring instead of buying it from the store. (4) I'm pretty sure Prince of Wales island is part of the subsistence zone, so you have certain liberties in subsistence fishing and hunting.
** A word about property taxes. Many remote places in Alaska have no property taxes. The very concept is enough to make most 'outsiders' from the lower-48 do a double-take. Wuhhhh? But there's usually a reason. There are no taxes, because there is virtually no infrastructure in many places. And I mean like none, zero, zip, nadda, the big goose egg. It's truly subsistence living, and requires the height of self sufficiency. There are no roads, it's up to you get where you need to go in the bush either via snow machine, dog sled team, river boats, and bush plane. Theres no phones, no utilities, no nothing. Truly independent living, but it comes with a hefty price tag of a different kind. You have to be the right sort to live there.
The story of Heimo Korth has certainly inspired me (I enjoyed Dick Proeneke's story also). Korth is truly one of the last great subsistence pioneers in the United States, at least to the extent that any man who grows up nowadays can be.
It's part of a series on small towns that people might be interested in, related to the question asked. It profiles Prince of Wales Island in Alaska, which I think is the second largest island in the United States (right behind Kodiak Island, also AK).
I leave you to read the article, but some advantages to living on PoW island, but also Alaska in general are:
(1) No building code on Prince of Wales Island. I think that is still the case at the current point in time. (2) I think certain portions of the island have no property taxes (and some do). The property taxes are minor at best. (3) Residents can get a permit (I guess is the procedure) to get their own lumber off of government land. You get a certain amount of board-feet and can use it either for firewood, or for lumber with which to build your own cabin. You can have the local mill plane the trees down for you for a very reasonable price, and make your cabin with lumber that you [yourself] took a hand in acquiring instead of buying it from the store. (4) I'm pretty sure Prince of Wales island is part of the subsistence zone, so you have certain liberties in subsistence fishing and hunting.
** A word about property taxes. Many remote places in Alaska have no property taxes. The very concept is enough to make most 'outsiders' from the lower-48 do a double-take. Wuhhhh? But there's usually a reason. There are no taxes, because there is virtually no infrastructure in many places. And I mean like none, zero, zip, nadda, the big goose egg. It's truly subsistence living, and requires the height of self sufficiency. There are no roads, it's up to you get where you need to go in the bush either via snow machine, dog sled team, river boats, and bush plane. Theres no phones, no utilities, no nothing. Truly independent living, but it comes with a hefty price tag of a different kind. You have to be the right sort to live there.
The story of Heimo Korth has certainly inspired me (I enjoyed Dick Proeneke's story also). Korth is truly one of the last great subsistence pioneers in the United States, at least to the extent that any man who grows up nowadays can be.
This is a documentary that was done about Heimo Korth. If you have about fifty minutes to kill, give it a look and see if it strikes your fancy:
It's not for everyone, but if you ask me, that's admirable living.
Great video. Obviously, life is harsh and dangerous by our standards. But I'll bet (and I heard a little bit of it in Heimo's comments) he sees much more danger in the way the rest of us live. All of our problems are just a distant radio signal for those two. That's about as close to self-sufficiency as it gets.
You brought up PoW island (in AK). I have considered the area. I had the impression that it has been overrun with tourists, spectators, and yuppies with lots of money. After reading the linked article (not sure how old it is), perhaps I'm wrong? Does anyone have experience with this area (PoW Island, AK)? It would have a lot of advantages for sufficiency--assuming there is no "Seattle-ization" going on. Anyone???
You brought up PoW island (in AK). I have considered the area. I had the impression that it has been overrun with tourists, spectators, and yuppies with lots of money. After reading the linked article (not sure how old it is), perhaps I'm wrong? Does anyone have experience with this area (PoW Island, AK)? It would have a lot of advantages for sufficiency--assuming there is no "Seattle-ization" going on. Anyone???
I perhaps leave that to Alaskans on this forum who may be in-the-know, but I've done a lot of research on different areas in AK, and Prince of Wales was one that keeps popping up on my list, and is probably in my top 5 places I would consider in that state.
I was not really aware of the tourist problem, though I am aware that it's in proximity to the area where all those big cruise/tourist ships pass through the "inside passage" that people take to go view the glaciers and whales. My impression was that the tourists confined themselves more to the southeast mainland, rather than the islands of PoW and Baranof, etc...
In any case, the island is huge, and even if it had tourism in some areas... it seems quite likely that you'd never even see this people in your daily life.
Here's what I view as pros to living in the southeast, AK (be it on PoW or maybe another quiet area, maybe like Hyder... which is another area I was checking out):
(1) It's essentially a rainforest in certain parts of southeast Alaska. Probably similar to western Washington state in that regard. This makes for very good possibilities of subsistence living if you want to grow a really healthy garden.
(2) Because it is a rainforest, the trees and vegetation are very dense and lush (which aesthetically I find preferable, as an aside, as opposed to the somewhat sparse trees in the interior), and there is lots of forest area from which one can harvest wood for both building, and abundant firewood galore.
(3) The temperature is actually amazingly reasonable there (in stark contrast to the interior which gets frigid in the winter), and scarcely seems to be different than western Washington. This means longer growing season, which is also good for subsistence garden growing. The following website is a good research tool for comparing and contrasting the average temperature in different states and cities:
(4) Also, the whole extended dark hour during winter thing isn't nearly as bad there as it is in Fairbanks. This is good for not just the crops, but also if you have a photovoltaic electric system, you should get more power in the winter than you would get in the interior, and also good if one is the type of person who gets seasonal effective type disorders and gets depressed from lack of light.
(5) PoW is part of the "Unorganized Borough" so far as I am aware, which is considered a good thing, politically. I'm not fully aware of all that entails, but generally it may put you out of property tax jurisdiction in some areas, and I think in those areas they leave you alone in terms of building codes.
(6) You get subsistence privileges, because it's considered a remote part of Alaska, even though its actually not so remote in comparison to many places in the interior.
(7) Not entirely sure, but I was led to believe that the game on the island is more than sufficient. They don't have brown bear (Grizzlies), like they do on Kodiak island... which may or may not be a bad thing, depending on how eager one was to be neighbors with them. The island just has black bears.
(8) The southeast, for whatever reason, has laxer rules about making use of animal parts (in particular bear parts, like the claws... but I think fur, also).... which you can make into trinkets to sell (to tourists, perhaps), to supplement ones income. The people in the interior follow a stricter set of rules for that, though I have no idea why.
Some negatives of Southeast, AK:
(1) From what I gather, it's a bit overcast there quite frequently. Might affect ones solar power a bit, but I think this is probably more than offeset by the fact that you don't have long periods of darkness in the winter like you do much higher up in Alaska.
(2) The extensive overcast days might also affect some people who are prone to depression.
(3) Unless you have your own boat, getting back to the mainland to fetch supplies (i.e. lumber at the Big Box lumber store, or simply going for a mega stock-up of supplies at Walmart) [might] be a real pain in the rear. The Alaska Marine Highway system, which is the inter-island ferry, seems to charge a real raping for fees.
You may be able to avail yourself of local boaters who will take you much cheaper.... but at least until you get an "in" with a local, you may have to take the ferry, and that is very, very, expensive.
(4) Also, the really good supplies to be gotten are in Anchorage... which is too far away.... and would cost a lot of money to take the ferry over there, I think. You can get good supplies at Juneau and probably Ketchikan, as they have some decent "big box" stores there..... but the really good supply place is in Anchorage (a.k.a. 'Los Anchorage,' as the locals sometimes derogatorily call it).
(5)"Over the Counter" land is not available for sale their anymore like it is in the south-central Alaska and the interior. Much of this OTC land is quite reasonable in cost (though one has to shop carefully, because much of the OTC land is very 'sketchy'.... it gets waterlogged in the springtime). The land in the southeast is generally more expensive, unless you happen upon a really lucky deal, which is rare. And I have yet to find anything really cheap on PoW thusfar.
Cheap land, unfortunately, is my criteria.... so I'm kind of getting squeezed out of this option.
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 02-22-2011 at 02:16 PM..
I perhaps leave that to Alaskans on this forum who may be in-the-know, but I've done a lot of research on different areas in AK, and Prince of Wales was one that keeps popping up on my list, and is probably in my top 5 places I would consider in that state.
I was not really aware of the tourist problem, though I am aware that it's in proximity to the area where all those big cruise/tourist ships pass through the "inside passage" that people take to go view the glaciers and whales. My impression was that the tourists confined themselves more to the southeast mainland, rather than the islands of PoW and Baranof, etc...
In any case, the island is huge, and even if it had tourism in some areas... it seems quite likely that you'd never even see this people in your daily life.
Here's what I view as pros to living in the southeast, AK (be it on PoW or maybe another quiet area, maybe like Hyder... which is another area I was checking out):
(1) It's essentially a rainforest in certain parts of southeast Alaska. Probably similar to western Washington state in that regard. This makes for very good possibilities of subsistence living if you want to grow a really healthy garden.
(2) Because it is a rainforest, the trees and vegetation are very dense and lush (which aesthetically I find preferable, as an aside, as opposed to the somewhat sparse trees in the interior), and there is lots of forest area from which one can harvest wood for both building, and abundant firewood galore.
(3) The temperature is actually amazingly reasonable there (in stark contrast to the interior which gets frigid in the winter), and scarcely seems to be different than western Washington. This means longer growing season, which is also good for subsistence garden growing. The following website is a good research tool for comparing and contrasting the average temperature in different states and cities:
(4) Also, the whole extended dark hour during winter thing isn't nearly as bad there as it is in Fairbanks. This is good for not just the crops, but also if you have a photovoltaic electric system, you should get more power in the winter than you would get in the interior, and also good if one is the type of person who gets seasonal effective type disorders and gets depressed from lack of light.
(5) PoW is part of the "Unorganized Borough" so far as I am aware, which is considered a good thing, politically. I'm not fully aware of all that entails, but generally it may put you out of property tax jurisdiction in some areas, and I think in those areas they leave you alone in terms of building codes.
(6) You get subsistence privileges, because it's considered a remote part of Alaska, even though its actually not so remote in comparison to many places in the interior.
(7) Not entirely sure, but I was led to believe that the game on the island is more than sufficient. They don't have brown bear (Grizzlies), like they do on Kodiak island... which may or may not be a bad thing, depending on how eager one was to be neighbors with them. The island just has black bears.
(8) The southeast, for whatever reason, has laxer rules about making use of animal parts (in particular bear parts, like the claws... but I think fur, also).... which you can make into trinkets to sell (to tourists, perhaps), to supplement ones income. The people in the interior follow a stricter set of rules for that, though I have no idea why.
Some negatives of Southeast, AK:
(1) From what I gather, it's a bit overcast there quite frequently. Might affect ones solar power a bit, but I think this is probably more than offeset by the fact that you don't have long periods of darkness in the winter like you do much higher up in Alaska.
(2) The extensive overcast days might also affect some people who are prone to depression.
(3) Unless you have your own boat, getting back to the mainland to fetch supplies (i.e. lumber at the Big Box lumber store, or simply going for a mega stock-up of supplies at Walmart) [might] be a real pain in the rear. The Alaska Marine Highway system, which is the inter-island ferry, seems to charge a real raping for fees.
You may be able to avail yourself of local boaters who will take you much cheaper.... but at least until you get an "in" with a local, you may have to take the ferry, and that is very, very, expensive.
(4) Also, the really good supplies to be gotten are in Anchorage... which is too far away.... and would cost a lot of money to take the ferry over there, I think. You can get good supplies at Juneau and probably Ketchikan, as they have some decent "big box" stores there..... but the really good supply place is in Anchorage (a.k.a. 'Los Anchorage,' as the locals sometimes derogatorily call it).
(5)"Over the Counter" land is not available for sale their anymore like it is in the south-central Alaska and the interior. Much of this OTC land is quite reasonable in cost (though one has to shop carefully, because much of the OTC land is very 'sketchy'.... it gets waterlogged in the springtime). The land in the southeast is generally more expensive, unless you happen upon a really lucky deal, which is rare. And I have yet to find anything really cheap on PoW thusfar.
Cheap land, unfortunately, is my criteria.... so I'm kind of getting squeezed out of this option.
Great info. Thanks for that.
Yeah... cheap land. There just isn't much of that left in areas that work well for self-sufficiency. Plus, those areas are usually overpopulated. The way I see it, the only real candidates are a few places in the western deserts (of course, water is a big issue here), the far northern plains (ND, SD, MT, WY), far northern Maine, and Alaska. Maybe some spotty locations in Missouri or Arkansas (of course, WAY too hot/humid there for me...). The choices are limited.
I think Alaska has some real advantages that might outweigh the disadvantages. Problem here is that Alaska takes a lot of money to get set up and significant funding for supplies once you get there. It would be great though!
I read the first page of this topic and the replies seemed negative, did people on this forum change that much in nearly 2 years? I know 2 years ago the topic we come up with today would have made us look crazy or like fanatical "the sky is falling", but today people have wised up.
I think that most of us want to help people to plan to be self-sufficent - the key word is "help". Not tell them where they should live, or what is the best place for them. People pretty much have to figure that out for themselves. After all, some folks want a liberal or artsy-craftsy kind of small town, others want one populated by John Wayne types. Some want to be social butterflies and some want to be left alone. Generally you can find all of those types of towns in any state. It's harder to find ones that aren't too insular, or that meet all of any individual's wants, needs, or expectations.
Also after having been on here for 4 years, I have noticed the 'demographic' changing on here quite a bit - a LOT more people just sign on and say, "I want a JOB! Tell me where I should work!" or "I want to have a farm!" or "I want to live off-grid!" - without any sort of indication as to what their training is, what their preferences are, what they consider "affordable" or even "off-grid". After awhile one gets rather jaded trying to explain, over and over and over again...
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The island just has black bears.
