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I do not understand why a large percentage of threads here end up with an implied, "Oh my good lord, what do I do if I get some horrible terminal illness and die because I live more than 5 blocks from a hospital while trying to be self-sufficient?" Well, not to sound harsh, but... YOU DIE! We all die. Get over it. What happens if I get creamed on the freeway on the way home from work? I die. What happens if a meteor hits me? I die. Your chance of dying at any given time is never non-zero. It's a dangerous world and you have a 100% chance of DYING. I don't even think about it because I know damn well it's going to happen. Any of you planning on never dying?
A huge difference I see in people now and people when I was younger is that a big percentage of people are OBSESSED with medical care. It's all they think about. It's a phobia. There are medical facilities on every street corner like there used to be a saloon on every corner. What's with that? I don't get it. Are people really so much more fragile and sickly than great grandpappy was? Mine lived to 93. Grandpappy til 91. Neither hung at the doctor's office like people used to hang at the bar after work. Now it's a national pastime.
In paragliding (I used to paraglide a lot... whooooooo, , how dangerous: I could have died!!! We were sometimes HUNDREDS of miles from a hospital ) we had a psychological phenomenon called "object fixation." Pilots would worry about steering clear of and not hitting a tree or a power line so much that they actually caused themselves to crash right into it. I saw it happen several times--the only tree within 1000 yards of the landing field and they hit it. It's real. After the pilots were rescued, the story was always the same. "I was trying not to hit that ......" I wonder if "object fixation" actually happens in other walks of life? Say, medical care, for example? If all you think of is needing to go to a hospital and being within walking distance of one, might it increase your likelihood of needing one?
Sorry (again) for the rant. But there has to be others out there who are so sick of reading/hearing about medical this and medical that they are going to need a damned mental hospital.
Sorry (again) for the rant. But there has to be others out there who are so sick of reading/hearing about medical this and medical that they are going to need a damned mental hospital.
Yes I for one...
Living as far from a hospital as you can possibly get will not reduce your chances of immortality.
I have never known anyone who is truly self-sufficent (grows or hunts all their own food, cuts their own lumber and forges their own nails for a self-built house, digs their own well and privy hole, makes their own clothing, births their own babies at home, does self-doctoring, etc.). I for one like to live within easy driving distance of a grocery store, gas station, emergency room and credit union. I really, really like public transportation, street lighting, traffic signals that work and being connected to a power grid, cable TV and internet service. I like air conditioning. I like knowing the odds are high that most of the time I can get a quick 911 response from police, fire and ambulance services if something bad happens. I also like knowing I have the means to shoot an intruder if the police can't respond fast enough. I think that sterile surgery and general anesthesia are wonderful things to have around when needed. I like knowing that I have neighbors living on either side of me and across the street who would call 911 if they thought something scary was happening at my house. I like civilization, I like law-abiding citizens and I like being part of a community. I am all for being prepared to deal with temporary disruptions in daily services, but I am not interested in being a hermit, rejecting civilized society or turning my back on my community or all the modern conveniences that improve the length and quality of life. I suspect that pre-industrial times were tough times -- I perfer to live in a modern industrialized society with all the trimmings.
I know a few couples that are just like what you never knew and wouldn't trade it to live in the modern world.
Trapped in western Maine 20 miles of rugged 4x4 dirt road and in winter they can't get out. The make wooden canoes, brown ash baskets, back packs of the same, hooked rugs of wool and hand spun. The kids are home birthed, and when they get their first new vehical it's a truck that has been parked out back longer than they have been alive.
Dwayne just hands them the keys and says, if you can make it run it's yours.
Every thing they make to sell, does sell, and the revenew is used to just pay taxes.
These folks never go to a grocery store, and wouldn't want to eat anything in one.
People like this with any wants, just set about making what it is they want.
If a bad guy happens onto Dwayne the last remnant will be the stink in spring time, if he doesn't feed the wolves first.
I am a sort of runner up. I am lacking in home child births mainly. My 2nd wife and I can't have kids since we are both fixed. She didn't want kids before me and I was fixed before that, but I have 1 son now 30. My former wife was a city girl, who married me by mistake. That was doomed to fail from day 1, but I wasn't smart enough to know it, until day 2.
I work a forge and I cut trees, and do a lot more than that, and I like it.
Commonly I make my clothing from head to toe, and do the same with and for my wife.
Yeah, I think the idea of almost total self-sufficiency is more a dream than anything to actually strive for, unless you're a glutton for punishment and prefer to live a "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" life. But it can be fun to dream.
One thing many people forget to factor in is firewood. In ye olde days, one would breed like rabbits with the spouse, and so one had a dozen or so male offspring to cut wood from the infinite forests surrounding the homestead, and thus the family could survive long cold winters in the northern states. But it takes a LOT of wood (literally from a very large lot) to keep a home liveable in northern climes now, and it has to be big enough to be renewable for harvesting year after year.
But that's not the end of the heating thing. Since we no longer have huge families with many young strong male offspring to cut, haul, split, and stack the wood, we would likely have to do all that ourselves. Chances are that any offspring, male or female, would cut and run for civilization at the first opportunity. That means one or two aging adults would have to do all that in addition to plowing, planting, weeding, and harvesting crops, plus milking the cows and delivering the calves, decapitating overly feisty roosters, collecting eggs, baking bread, canning, doing laundry, making soap, making 'shine, darning socks, making harnesses for the horses and yokes for the oxen, cutting the balls off of young bulls in order to make oxen, frying the Rocky Mountain Oysters, mending clothes and darning socks, making clothes, spinning thread ...... there was no end to the work, people were often worn out by the time they were sixty. If there were vitamin deficiencies, they died much younger than that (my explanation for the very short average lifespans recorded of American pioneers).
That's why they needed 20 children and some good neighbors specializing in different things.
I always say if you're really going to try to be self-sufficient, at the very least move to an area with mild winters where you won't absolutely have to heat your home. At least that one burden is lessened. Trust me, when you're 62 yo and are partly paralyzed from a stroke or are suffering from chronic heart failure, you won't want to cut, haul, split, and stack a few cords of wood for the winter.
Most younger men these days are a tad too soft to be in the wood pile. What you want in the wood pile is a grumpy old man with a bad back and a fast chain saw.
Thar's been some days when I was faster splittin with a 6 pound maul than 2 men could be with a gas engine splitter. Of course this depends on the wood, and the ground.
On the mountain that ground was sandy rock. That ground was hard, so you didn't need any choppin block.
The wood was mixed hard wood mostly with straight grain, and partly dry so you could see and read natural checking cracks. It helps if you split wood from the bottom up too.
I would set up semi circles of stove cut logs and start hitting each one just once. Split or not, I moved on to the next. At the end to rest, i would lay down the maul, and stand up any logs or pieces of logs in the same semi circle and go around again.
When everything works well, 1 man with a maul can beat a gas splitter pretty easy.
You'ld have a bad time getting my saws away from me though
When I was just 16 I dreamed about a USA motorcyle tour. It was a great dream too. In 2005 it became real, and the real ride was a hellova lot harder than the dream. On the real ride there were somedays I dreamed about just the end of the day.
Of those dreams, sometimes it was just the road, other days it was the weather. A bad T storm high in the mt's of Utah throwin hunks of hot granite at me was one of them days.
Gun, My personal biggest tree to fire wood, was a Md red oak 34" diameter at the felling cut, and it made 3 and 3/4 cords. I didn't have the right bar for that tree, so it was something of a chore. But yeah in the east there are still some very large trees. That one contained bullets from the War between the States, and was killed by gypsy moths.
DH the Paramedic and me the EMT have a philosophical bent as well, when it comes to medical care. We used to have to drive the ambulance sometimes over 20 minutes to a call, and then sometimes 20 to a hospital, but for severe cardiac, respiratory, and traumatic injuries, up to 40 minutes to get a patient to a trauma center! I have done CPR for two straight hours while a Paramedic intubated the patient and pushed drugs, climbing on the guerney when we got to the hospital and straddling the patent to do CPR into the hospital and the Exam rooms. Everyone told us how horrible that was, that it was a miracle we saved anyone at all...
Most of what happens to adult folks is their own danged fault. They do incredibly stupid things and then expect someone to SAVE them... every freaking time. They have no idea how to splint their own fractures, stop a cold before it turns into pneumonia, bandage a wound, stop a bleeder, treat a burn. They don't know the signs and symptoms of an allergic reaction, nor how to swallow a couple of Benadryl before their throat closes and they can't swallow, much less breathe. They'll pick up a phone and dial 911 for any and everything from an ear infection to a crossways f*rt, especially in the middle of the night. They have gotten so dependent on instantaneous response to their every whine that they really are terrified to be away from a hospital, comforting doctors and nurses who feed them pills, stick IVs in their arms, and run thousands of dollars of needless tests to tell them that they have nothing to worry about. They are so terrified of dying that they don't know how to live.
We now live 45 minutes from any medical care whatsoever, and 3 hours from a minor (level 3) trauma center. The Level 1 Trauma Center is 5.5 hours away; longer if there is a snowstorm, blizzard, or ice on the roads. Know what happens if we have a traumatic injury? We die. Do we know this? Absolutely. Do we do everything we can to prevent it? Of course. Are we aware that stuff happens anyway? You betcha.
Most people out here live long and happy, healthy lives. Why? Because they aren't sitting on their wazoos in some cubicle for 30 years, looking up WebMD profiles for every cough or sniffle, aren't calling their doctor for every little cramp or infection, and aren't demandiing an ambulance to cart them to the ER everytime they can't figure out how to fix the simplest medical problem. If the ERs and doctors and nurses are ever no longer readily available 24/7, most folks will simply curl up and die, right where they are, waiting for help that never comes.
DH the Paramedic and me the EMT have a philosophical bent as well, when it comes to medical care. We used to have to drive the ambulance sometimes over 20 minutes to a call, and then sometimes 20 to a hospital, but for severe cardiac, respiratory, and traumatic injuries, up to 40 minutes to get a patient to a trauma center! I have done CPR for two straight hours while a Paramedic intubated the patient and pushed drugs, climbing on the guerney when we got to the hospital and straddling the patent to do CPR into the hospital and the Exam rooms. Everyone told us how horrible that was, that it was a miracle we saved anyone at all...
Most of what happens to adult folks is their own danged fault. They do incredibly stupid things and then expect someone to SAVE them... every freaking time. They have no idea how to splint their own fractures, stop a cold before it turns into pneumonia, bandage a wound, stop a bleeder, treat a burn. They don't know the signs and symptoms of an allergic reaction, nor how to swallow a couple of Benadryl before their throat closes and they can't swallow, much less breathe. They'll pick up a phone and dial 911 for any and everything from an ear infection to a crossways f*rt, especially in the middle of the night. They have gotten so dependent on instantaneous response to their every whine that they really are terrified to be away from a hospital, comforting doctors and nurses who feed them pills, stick IVs in their arms, and run thousands of dollars of needless tests to tell them that they have nothing to worry about. They are so terrified of dying that they don't know how to live.
We now live 45 minutes from any medical care whatsoever, and 3 hours from a minor (level 3) trauma center. The Level 1 Trauma Center is 5.5 hours away; longer if there is a snowstorm, blizzard, or ice on the roads. Know what happens if we have a traumatic injury? We die. Do we know this? Absolutely. Do we do everything we can to prevent it? Of course. Are we aware that stuff happens anyway? You betcha.
Most people out here live long and happy, healthy lives. Why? Because they aren't sitting on their wazoos in some cubicle for 30 years, looking up WebMD profiles for every cough or sniffle, aren't calling their doctor for every little cramp or infection, and aren't demandiing an ambulance to cart them to the ER everytime they can't figure out how to fix the simplest medical problem. If the ERs and doctors and nurses are ever no longer readily available 24/7, most folks will simply curl up and die, right where they are, waiting for help that never comes.
Darwin Rulz.
Totally agree with everything you've written here. 'Specially liked the crossways f*rt comment. It's SO true in today's world.
Gun, My personal biggest tree to fire wood, was a Md red oak 34" diameter at the felling cut, and it made 3 and 3/4 cords. I didn't have the right bar for that tree, so it was something of a chore. But yeah in the east there are still some very large trees. That one contained bullets from the War between the States, and was killed by gypsy moths.
So not killed by your saw then...
Killed by Gypsy Moths the bugs, or the planes..?
Bet it took you less than a day to fell as well. Do you have a Red 'S' on a yellow pentagon on your chest too?
OK, Superman, I give up. I can see that my bullets just bounce off your mighty chest when I shoot. You and your Dad know everything and do everything, and your Mom even cured a normally progressive illness due to being active, unlike those other lazy bums who have to take meds for it.
I'll bet you read Atlas Shrugged, didn't you?
Got to admit, that was the best laugh I have had in days.
This thread went to the bottom of the pile and I forgot about it until I saw it tonight, and after a long day working, the pure insanity of that post really gave me a lighthearted boost.
I have a question for the folks here who actually do live in a manner that promotes self reliance and preparadness, Why do folks with apparently no interest in the subject, nor any apparent ability to perform even the most basic tasks that would be required to live more than 10 minutes from the doctor/hospital/fast food place/car lot/ subway station/ police officer find that the only intimated pleasure they have in life is to come onto a board such as this one, and try to convince people who actually live the life, that it is impossible?
I am not trying to hijack this thread, but past comments from a specific poster have given rise to the question, if you have no intrest in living like this, what difference does it make if someone else does??
I don't do anything too different than a lot of folks here on this board, I have never made sugar like Mac, while I was a first responder on a fire department for 12 years, I never felt the desire to become a full paramedic like SCGranny,(I have a weak stomach for too much of that stuff ), and while I was military for several years, there are security specialists on this board, and ChrisC has a lot more experience in the desert and apparently a lot more intrest in in architecture than I do, I guess it is just beyond my comprehension why there would be any intrest to just try to start fights on an internet board...I certainly don't go to the health and beauty boards to tell people how to become beautiful.
Most of the folks here appear to be highly intelligent, motivated and thinking indviduals. I may not always agree with everything written, but to bring the conversation down to apparent insults, well that to me is just showing a lack of character.
Just my 2 cents. I would really like to hear what other posters may think about this.
Oh yeah, one more thing, is Atlas Shrugged some kind of magazine like Countryside or Farmer Stockman?
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, how dangerous: I could have died!!! 
We were sometimes HUNDREDS of miles from a hospital 
) we had a psychological phenomenon called "object fixation." Pilots would worry about steering clear of and not hitting a tree or a power line so much that they actually caused themselves to crash right into it. I saw it happen several times--the only tree within 1000 yards of the landing field and they hit it. It's real. After the pilots were rescued, the story was always the same. "I was trying not to hit that ......" I wonder if "object fixation" actually happens in other walks of life? Say, medical care, for example? If all you think of is needing to go to a hospital and being within walking distance of one, might it increase your likelihood of needing one?
My Medical Rant
Totally agree with everything you've written here. 'Specially liked the crossways f*rt comment. 
), and while I was military for several years, there are security specialists on this board, and ChrisC has a lot more experience in the desert and apparently a lot more intrest in in architecture than I do, I guess it is just beyond my comprehension why there would be any intrest to just try to start fights on an internet board...I certainly don't go to the health and beauty boards to tell people how to become beautiful.
