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Most towns tie the sewer bill to the water bill, with sewage fees being based on how much water you use. She figured that by using captured rainwater for everything, she could get away with using the town sewers for free. She figured wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
She just needs to find a more rural county that is "off-grid" friendly, and with no large cities within its borders. There are still some out there if you poke around a bit. Some counties actually go out of their way to welcome off-grid type folks by relaxing some of the codes that may make sense in large metro areas but are ridiculous in a rural setting.
Exactly.
When I was looking for houses in Southern New Hampshire with some acreage, none were within Nashua or Manchester, but all still in Hillsborough county, all had private wells and private septic. There is a requirement for working water/power/etc when a place is first built in order to get an occupancy permit, but after that initial inspection there isn't much oversight.
Apparently when you disconnect from water and electricity, the city you are living in doesn't like it very much..... No doubt this has everything to do with the loss in revenue to the city and nothing to do with safety....
It's not just money. It's the government's need for total control over the citizenry. Once the citizen depends on government for everything, they have to give government EVERYTHING they have. The power this gives politicians is frightening.
I worked for government in Florida for a decade, and I remember being horrified coming across one published document that mentioned that EVERY citizen should be forced into the system for public water and sewer, even if they already had well and septic on a piece of land that could easily handle the waste as it was meant to be handled by nature. The publication made it clear that CONTROL was the point, and government must never let the citizens think they didn't have to beg permission of government to do anything and everything. Plus, population densities can continue to explode (which government LOVES) as they packed more and more people on the same land. Who cares that you have "boil water" orders every month, and have to build incredibly expensive water and waste treatment plants?
What is sad is that under the current system, the environment will be inevitably destroyed, since population can never be limited unless you allow an entire area to build out at densities that can be dealt with via wells and septic systems. That would give you a sustainable society, and quality of life for everyone.
Most cities will not allow occupancy of a home without water service. If you don't have water, you have no sanitation. That may work out in the boonies somewhere, but not in high density residential areas. Private wells in cities are usually contaminated and not potable, though they are sometimes allowed with regularly inspected backflow preventers to eliminate the danger of cross-contamination.
That was my first thought when I read this: where does she get her water? Wouldn't digging a well for a single-family home be more expensive than paying for city water even if it's legal? And without water, how would you have a toilet, shower, or wash your dishes or clothes. If she's anywhere near civilization, how do her neighbors feel about her outhouse? Is it contaminating the ground water?
I'm 100% for any type of conservation a person wants to do to cut their living costs. But many of these "off-the-grid" types are really anti-social and have thumbing their noses at society and government as more of a motive than living close to nature. I've seen people who try to refuse their community's garbage disposal system, but then they're running around looking for commercial bins other people pay for to stash their trash. Not fair.
I'm afraid the news story, and the headline of this thread as well, misrepresent the actual situation. This isn't a story about government harassment, and it's not about control, it's actually a story about a community's legitimate concerns about proper sanitation in an urban environment where many houses have been foreclosed, and there's already a big problem with people squatting in houses with no utilities.
Also consider that she's in a duplex, that the city tagged her because of repeated complaints by neighbors, including 6 complaints of animal abuse, and that there's been a credible claim raised that she's in possession of the house fraudulently. She's already 2 years into a 10 year probation for felony real estate fraud, and owes thousands of dollars in restitution to former clients she defrauded.
Solar powered? Unsightly PV panels on the roof? Nope, it's not what you think, and that's merely a red herring she created to try to generate public sympathy. She has a small folding solar panel, maybe 300 watts, that she uses to charge her laptop battery. That's it, no more. Her "rainwater system" is a 50 gallon rain barrel. This "off-the-grid" story is nothing more than a not-very-credible excuse for her continuing to live in a house, with no job and no income and no money, after she's had her utilities cut off for non-payment. She called the reporters herself, and spun the story to her advantage.
The city's interest in proper sanitation and public health is legitimate, and they have been working with her to find a resolution. For now it appears that they'll let her stay if she just reconnects the water service, to allow the sewer to operate properly, and to pay a minimal rate for that service.
Sometimes news stories just don't give an accurate picture of what's actually going on. But you knew that, right?
That was my first thought when I read this: where does she get her water? Wouldn't digging a well for a single-family home be more expensive than paying for city water even if it's legal? And without water, how would you have a toilet, shower, or wash your dishes or clothes. If she's anywhere near civilization, how do her neighbors feel about her outhouse? Is it contaminating the ground water?
I'm 100% for any type of conservation a person wants to do to cut their living costs. But many of these "off-the-grid" types are really anti-social and have thumbing their noses at society and government as more of a motive than living close to nature. I've seen people who try to refuse their community's garbage disposal system, but then they're running around looking for commercial bins other people pay for to stash their trash. Not fair.
She's not using an "outhouse", she's dumping her waste into the city sewer system and not paying for it. So much for "off the grid". Most of the homes in her area already had well and septic in place. The City of Cape Coral is mandating that the homes be connected within a certain time frame. The costs to hook to the public system there cost us 24k when we lived there. Costs for a new well and septic would be nowhere close to that. Many of the homeowners mandated to connect to water and sewer kept their wells for irrigation or pools.
Yes, in Florida, septics can cause great harm. Cape Coral is a waterfront city, just like Marco Island and the makeup of our soil and defective septic systems create a great deal of damage to the Gulf. Both cities have mandated citizens connect to sewer for this reason. Other cities have had these requirements in place for decades.
Each state is different, some places have water management districts that are God-like in their powers to make your life miserable. However, often there are good reasons why codes are in place, esp. in higher density areas. I just think that every law should be enforced according to its spirit, NOT its letter. If I live in the city and I can safely put solar panels on my roof, it should be the city's responsibility to move with the times. If I can safely collect water, same thing.
The problem comes from the fact that a lot of local government employees are a curious mix of a bureaucrat and God.
I have never heard of a jurisdiction that requires electrical or natural gas service, though a private system has to meet the same building codes as one connected to the mains.
I have never heard of a municipal jurisdiction that does not require public water and sewer service if it is available.
I'm afraid the news story, and the headline of this thread as well, misrepresent the actual situation. This isn't a story about government harassment, and it's not about control, it's actually a story about a community's legitimate concerns about proper sanitation in an urban environment where many houses have been foreclosed, and there's already a big problem with people squatting in houses with no utilities.
Also consider that she's in a duplex, that the city tagged her because of repeated complaints by neighbors, including 6 complaints of animal abuse, and that there's been a credible claim raised that she's in possession of the house fraudulently. She's already 2 years into a 10 year probation for felony real estate fraud, and owes thousands of dollars in restitution to former clients she defrauded.
Solar powered? Unsightly PV panels on the roof? Nope, it's not what you think, and that's merely a red herring she created to try to generate public sympathy. She has a small folding solar panel, maybe 300 watts, that she uses to charge her laptop battery. That's it, no more. Her "rainwater system" is a 50 gallon rain barrel. This "off-the-grid" story is nothing more than a not-very-credible excuse for her continuing to live in a house, with no job and no income and no money, after she's had her utilities cut off for non-payment. She called the reporters herself, and spun the story to her advantage.
The city's interest in proper sanitation and public health is legitimate, and they have been working with her to find a resolution. For now it appears that they'll let her stay if she just reconnects the water service, to allow the sewer to operate properly, and to pay a minimal rate for that service.
Sometimes news stories just don't give an accurate picture of what's actually going on. But you knew that, right?
^^^^^^ THIS !!! The story is deeper than just a woman disconnecting her power and water, it is about living in a s*** hole in a family neighborhood. This woman is a little disturbed and for some reason a local Attorney has come to her defense, probably to make a name for himself/herself.
Her home is totally unkempt, the yard looks like it hasn't been cared for in years, and the neighbors just want her to keep it looking like the rest of the homes in that area. You can't blame them, no one wants to live next door to a dump. It looks totally abandoned, especially since it is totally dark all the time.
So before you start accusing the city of goosestepping, know all the facts. If his woman lived next door to you I am sure you wouldn't be so quick to come to her defense.
If she really was living off the grid, no one would have known where she was or that she existed.
Thus, problem solved. She could live any way she liked. But when in Rome....
The only way out of that which you feel is repressive is to remove yourself from that situation. Otherwise, you're going to sing their song and dance their dance unless you want to be endlessly hounded. Sounds to me like the woman wanted to live in a way that ended up harassing her neighbors. If that's the case, she's at fault and in the wrong. Regardless, if she simply removed herself from that situation, she'd be more likely to be free to live any lifestyle she chooses. Ultimately, the lifestyle any given person chooses should not make life miserable for those around him/her. Her solution is obviously off grid and out of the loop of modern urban society.
Top to bottom it's a bogus story, a smoke screen generated by a dishonest person to distract from the city having a legitimate interest in responding to neighbors' complaints of an illegal and possibly unsanitary condition in their community.
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